K98 Cleaning Kits
- Thread starter timothy
- Start date
Very hard to find and very desirable!
Yea...seems my pal has the touch with finding these odd kits. He was teasing me when holding up the Madler37 and smiling when he said "It is the ooooonly one!". I replied, advising him not to push his luck...! It occurred to me that the G Appel "apple icon" marked components were possibly something they initiated to designate retail (behoerden) products from military production. This might have occurred around the same time period as the Madler marked kit as well...
How much for the Mädler, when a tan dual line stamped arr44 goes for +$500 ?
https://www.ebay.de/itm/2-WK-Wehrma...=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
I think you are correct here pwcosol. In my opinion the GA within apple logo as well as the Gustav Appel marking/stamps are for behoerden or retail sales. The oil bottles, tools. and chains with these markings are found in the three brush, some KWK, and the Jagd kits. Not encountered in the military contract kits. These behoerden behalter bear the G. Appel stamping. Have seen a very few tools that are overstamped Gustav Appel and cnx, perhaps diverted from one purpose to the other. Link below to a thread with some additional information on the behoerden kits. Note the use of the GA within apple logo in the period advertising provided by sauerfan on page 2.
http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread.php?7913-G-Appel-Jagd-Cleaning-Kits
dot
Senior Member
Thanks pwcosol for confirming that the Mädler37 kit is from G. Appel manufacture. Looking at the high quality manufacture of the tin case and their components, I thinked it also.
As Wolfgang indicated before, the Bruno Mädler firm was located at Berlin and was dealing with fittings and hardware for the building industry, rivets, screws, bolts and nuts...
This company also manufactured specialized products and tools for the Wehrmacht, among others, the grosse Waffenmeisterwerkzeug für MG und Handwaffen (heavy tool chest for machineguns and small arms) and this is where we can find a plausible conexion betwen the Mädler and G. Appel firms. I have seen a picture of the big armourers box that includes a Reinigungsgerät 34 inside. Maybe the Mädler firm buyed to G. appel kits with his trade name engraved for to complete their Waffenmeisterkasten together with the others special tools made by him.
Here a lik of a nice website showing a tool for to remove the extractor of the Mg34 made by Bruno Mädler: https://www.bergflak.com/salg/s35.html
Antoni
As Wolfgang indicated before, the Bruno Mädler firm was located at Berlin and was dealing with fittings and hardware for the building industry, rivets, screws, bolts and nuts...
This company also manufactured specialized products and tools for the Wehrmacht, among others, the grosse Waffenmeisterwerkzeug für MG und Handwaffen (heavy tool chest for machineguns and small arms) and this is where we can find a plausible conexion betwen the Mädler and G. Appel firms. I have seen a picture of the big armourers box that includes a Reinigungsgerät 34 inside. Maybe the Mädler firm buyed to G. appel kits with his trade name engraved for to complete their Waffenmeisterkasten together with the others special tools made by him.
Here a lik of a nice website showing a tool for to remove the extractor of the Mg34 made by Bruno Mädler: https://www.bergflak.com/salg/s35.html
Antoni
Thanks guys for your input regarding the Madler/Appel association. The thought that Madler might have used their marked RG34s to augment the Waffenmeister kits they assembled sounds very intriguing and just like something the Germans would do. As for what the kit is worth, guess if & when my friend decides to sell his RG34s, we might find out...
Hi guys ! I want to share some pictures with you . This is the MÄDLER 39 H cleaning kit from my personal collection . Its hard to see the two dots above the letter A because of the rough surface , it looks like MADLER in the pics .
I honestly dont remember if I got the kit the kit with these unmarked parts as shown . But then I have never seen any MÄDLER marked parts . Best regards from Germany , Wulf
I honestly dont remember if I got the kit the kit with these unmarked parts as shown . But then I have never seen any MÄDLER marked parts . Best regards from Germany , Wulf
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Nigromontanus
Senior Member
IMO unmarked one with added Mädler stamp
... and stamped on the opposite side of the lid as well...
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Agreed. Not an original MÄDLER can. The font is incorrect as is the marking itself and the location .....
dot
Senior Member
IMHO, an original MÄDLER can.
I am the opinion that the company Bruno Mädler was able to complete their heavy tool chests using Rg34s from Gustav Appel (unmarked). The MÄDLER 39 H markings could be stamped later and could represent a Rg34 coming from one of these armourers tool chest assembled for the Heer in 1939.
I found recently a picture of a wrench tool with the markings MÄDLER 40 H.
Antoni
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Nigromontanus
Senior Member
If your theory is correct it means that Mädler was not a maker of RG 34 kits, but used the can for putting something inside which we do not know exactly what it was?
I have built up a very complete collection and I never found a Mädler kit. Given the intensity I did it with one should have crossed me. The only one I am still missing is the tan rbl. I have 2 blue ones.
I have built up a very complete collection and I never found a Mädler kit. Given the intensity I did it with one should have crossed me. The only one I am still missing is the tan rbl. I have 2 blue ones.
Hummm, this seems plausible. The MADLER 37 Rg34 I pictured in post# 9 is as found, with components as new (sans HKW) and appear to be of APPEL manufacture. MADLER could have placed a initial order for complete Rg34s with APPEL for "X" amount of kits. APPEL most likely stamped the purchaser's name/date on the tin in the manner then acceptable to the Heer... either on their own or per request of the buyer. Since the known behalter appear to be tinned only on the inside, and 1938 was the transitional year with the external finish changing to green paint for APPEL, perhaps a additional contract for unmarked tins (possibly cheaper) might have been made by MADLER prior to that time. In fact, for the "39H" & "40H" marked behalter to be unpainted, when the requirement had already changed to paint (assuming the "39" & "40" numerals are date stamps), the behalter probably were then considered "new old stock" and posed no issue. It is also interesting the marking was applied to the left side of the lid and not the standard right side.
Regarding Nigromantanus's mention of the effort he has put into building his extensive collection, but has yet to find the elusive MADLER, you are not alone! My belief is, with the rise of I.T. and creation of forums such as this one, more information is at one's fingertips than ever before. I suspect even today, there are more guys holding a number of Rg34s in their collections whom only communicate with few others, than we do here. Think of how many MADLER kits went to N. Africa, the Mediterranean, and the "black hole" a.k.a "Soviet Union" and were lost forever. Since we see only the "Tip of the Tip" of Rg34 production, we are fortunate to have what we do have at all... and the greatest collectors of all time, the US Serviceman, has helped immensely to make it so.
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In many years of compiling rg34 maker/date information I have only encountered three MÄDLER marked behälter. All three were marked only MÄDLER37 on the right side of the large lid. Other markings could certainly exist. The firm, Bruno Mädler Werkzeug u. Werkzeugmaschinen-Fabrik, Berlin manufactured a number of military items some with their name, others numeric code 588, and finally the letter code dpq. Some of these items also have a H suffix stamped after the date, ie: dot’s wrench MÄDLER40H. Have also seen items with a L suffix including a canvas storage bag with stenciled Luftwaffe unit marking and ink stamp dpq41L. In theory, the H could stand for Heer; the L for Luftwaffe. The first use of the H or L suffix that I have observed are 1940 dated. The dpq code begins to appear in 1941, again sometimes encountered with the H or L; sometimes without a suffix of any kind. Items dated 1934 through 1940 use the MÄDLER name. Earlier pieces are usually found with a Werkzeug Mädler marking.
As dot indicated, Mädler certainly manufactured the Waffenmeisterkasten, examples known as early as 1934 and possibly some of these included rg34 that were marked by them. Another possibility is the Panzer MG Werkzeug (see pics). These kits included a rg34, wrenches, and an oil can as well as spare bolts for armored vehicle machine guns. MÄDLER clearly manufactured the round “banjo” type oil can found in the PZ MG Werkzeug as well as other MG cleaning kits. Conceivably the rg34 in these kits could have also been produced or marked my MÄDLER. I do find it intriguing that the PZ MG Werkzeug includes two primary components that have been encountered with the MÄDLER marking.
As dot indicated, Mädler certainly manufactured the Waffenmeisterkasten, examples known as early as 1934 and possibly some of these included rg34 that were marked by them. Another possibility is the Panzer MG Werkzeug (see pics). These kits included a rg34, wrenches, and an oil can as well as spare bolts for armored vehicle machine guns. MÄDLER clearly manufactured the round “banjo” type oil can found in the PZ MG Werkzeug as well as other MG cleaning kits. Conceivably the rg34 in these kits could have also been produced or marked my MÄDLER. I do find it intriguing that the PZ MG Werkzeug includes two primary components that have been encountered with the MÄDLER marking.
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