Just picked this up

[8x57mauser]

Just bought this. Not a sniper obviously but definitely appears to be either made between the wars or after WWII. I initially bought it to restock and use for hunting but now I'm also thinking of pulling a barrel off a d&t Kar98a action I have and build it into a pseudo Kar98a sniper.

But as it sits now its in 8mm, barrel has a 3 leaf express sight in the barrel rib. Scope is a Gerard 4x. Built on a Kar98a recevier. So now I'm going to drop it into a sporter stock I have shoot it and then decide what direction I'm going to move.

here are the crappy pictures from the auction, any ideas on if its pre-WWII or post-WWII?




I was considering using my bucket of Kar98 parts to turn it into this. just would need to locate a stock.

 

[Dave Roberts]

I maybe wrong but , I do not believe it will fit correctly into a 98a Type Stock . I believe it is a Sporter Type Stock You will need to find for the Action . Amberg maybe able to assist in helping You determine what would be a correct Stock . You found a really Nice Sporter - Hunting Rifle . Some of these can be very expensive and very collectable . Congratulations. Best Regards

 

[8x57mauser]

I maybe wrong but , I do not believe it will fit correctly into a 98a Type Stock . I believe it is a Sporter Type Stock You will need to find for the Action . Amberg maybe able to assist in helping You determine what would be a correct Stock . You found a really Nice Sporter - Hunting Rifle . Some of these can be very expensive and very collectable . Congratulations. Best Regards

I was under the assumption that it was a Kar98a receiver and then would be able to fit in a regular small ring 98 stock. but i have been wrong before and likely will be many more times. I'll do some detailed pictures and measurements once i have it in hand.

I'm certainly not opposed to restoring it as a sporter. my main attraction to it was that it still had its scope. most i saw for sale were missing the scope. I figured worst case its worth as much or more in parts than i paid for it

what is the difference between the sporter stock and the 98a stock, i would have assumed the receivers would be the same for a small ring 98 action?

 

[Amberg]

looks like an interwar built.
What Gerard scope? Mod. "K" ? What serial?
thanks

 

[Dave Roberts]

I do not know much about WWI or K98a thats why I referred to asking Amberg . Much better source for this subject info . Best Regards

 

[Texasbadger]

Rifle

The seller of that rifle was also selling a sporter stock that it probably fit.

 

[vaughn99]

Hello,

Scope is the later version made in the early to mid 20's probably in the 51,801-55,782 serial range due to serial font & placement seen in pics but can't read. The rear ocular housing had its own shape when Landlicht took over production and will have the mid transition of Gerard-Landlicht markings present in front of the saddle and behind the front ocular. Has the later style elevation drum thumb lock screw. The model is most likely a Model C as the Model K was no longer made by the Landlicht Company later when they bought out the Gerard company in 1920/21. Will hopfully know more with better pics when you have it in hand but is my best guess by the pictures present.

later
vaughn

 

[8x57mauser]

looks like an interwar built.
What Gerard scope? Mod. "K" ? What serial?
thanks

I don't know yet but I'll post detailed pictures once I have it.

The seller of that rifle was also selling a sporter stock that it probably fit.

I saw that stock it was for an m96 swede mauser different receiver from the small ring 98 action this sporter is built on

Hello,

Scope is the later version made in the early to mid 20's probably in the 51,801-55,782 serial range due to serial font and placement seen in pics but can't read. The rear ocular housing had its own shape when Landlicht took over production and will have the mid transition of Gerard-Landlicht markings present in front of the saddle and behind the front ocular. Has the later style elevation drum thumb lock screw. The model is most likely a Model C as the Model K was no longer made by the Landlicht Company when they bought out the Gerard company in 1920/21. Will hopfully know more with better pics when you have it in hand but is my best guess by the pictures present.

later
vaughn

Thanks for the info. I'll definitely post detailed pictures once I have it. I originally bid on it to use as a hunting rifle since it was basically all built and I wanted a rifle 8mm. My plans now are to restore it as a sporter there are god knows how many sportered kar98a stocks out there so I'll find one, put my wood working and carving skills to work and try and replicate a stock that is in a similar form to a 1920s mauser sporter. Though I have a really nice piece of old walnut that I'd love to turn into a stock for this which I think I'll eventually do.

 

[Amberg]

The model is most likely a Model C as the Model K was no longer made by the Landlicht Company when they bought out the Gerard company in 1920/21.
later
vaughn

Gerard/Landlicht produced some Mod. K scopes in the 550xx serial range.

 

[vaughn99]

Hello,

yep there are a few observations in the 55,000 range you are correct. As I re-read my post I was not clear I made it sound like they dropped the model K as soon as they bought it which is not correct. when the scope markings dropped the Gerard-Landlicht and was only marked Landlicht the K is no longer made and replaced with a Model P that is a 4.6x scope the largest power scope the Landlicht company made thus far observed.


later
vaughn

 

[Amberg]

Waiting for more information and better photos, we can discuss the Gerard/Landlicht story.
Not much information in the web.
In 1921 Gerard offers a Mod. "C" 5x and a Mod. "D" 8x
Nothing about a take-over.
?? Established as Landlichtspiel GmbH (LTD)
January 1922 change of name, into Landlicht AG (incorporation)
1923 Landlicht AG was renamed into: Landlicht-AG für Filmindustrie und Optik.
shareholder of Optische Werke AG vorm. Karl Schütz & Co., Kassel and Ertel-Werke AG für Feinmechanik in München.
Focused on: Production and distribution of films, film rental business and cinema business, in particular in rural areas, as well as production and trade with articles of the film and movie industry.
1925 bankruptcy

 

[8x57mauser]

Seller shipped it yesterday, tracking says it should be here Monday so hopefully I'll be able to get some updated pictures Monday or Tuesday and figure out what my next course of action is.

 

[vaughn99]

Hello,

I have 2 observations of a Gerard Model D in the 3000 serial range with the very early engraved and Berlin address which very shortly after was changed the Charlottenberg (spelling) address. with this I believe that the model D was introduced before 1921. I have also found post WWII Landlicht marked scopes. low serials but have observed and purchased 1 and all three observation are below 425 serial 2 with facotry windage 1 with out. My assumption of bought out as in NOT just a name change came from a site that was selling stock papers from the old gerard and now new Landlicht company with new promoter's stock offerings what ever that mean in the stock world in March 1922 and why i guessed the Gerard changed roughly 1920/21 in new reichs marks i believe. The Landlicht company registered its name/company Jan 1921. i do also have they filed Bankruptcy on 11/25/1925 also. No Landlicht company was listed or found on a 1932 Corperations listing so definatly closed by then. the Landlicht post WWII scope I have found must be someone else using the name I guess. I have Landlicht under another name was formed in 1919 called Lichtspielges, but no info on Gerard as there are WWI sniper scopes they were obvioulsy open before 1919.

later
vaughn

 

[8x57mauser]

Arrived today ahead of schedule. Have it with me at work now but haven't had a chance to open it up. Hopefully I can get out while there is still light and get some good pictures and post them tonight.

 

[8x57mauser]

Ok here they are, just some quick ones. Sorry in advance for the poor quality it was dark by the time I got home. Will retake them on Tuesday on my day off. Couple things, #1 he included the original rear swivel which was not mentioned on the auction so thats a plus. #2 he said the set triggers didnt not work but they do so thats another plus. bore is really nice, little frosting near the muzzle but otherwise bright and shiny. The express sights are maked 100, 200, and 300 meters. Appears to be the original Kar98a barrel just cut down and the bolt parts and sear match so I'm going to say that this was built on what was once a matching Kar98a. all other markings have been polished off. needs a good cleaning and some attention to the rust is a must. Overall for what I'm into it for, I'm very happy with it. The action dropped right into a chopped vz24 stock I had laying around, since its a small ring 98 there is a little extra space around the receiver ring but it will work for now. I need to do a little inletting for the set trigger assembly so i can installed the magazine housing. If there are any other you would like to see, just let me know.

the picture of the scope didnt come out that great but it reads

GERARD
LANDLICHT23
4 1/2X
D R P

 

[Amberg]

Not sure what the Mod. "23" corresponds to. Mod. C ?
Vaughn will know.
In a 1919 sales catalog the 4.5x scope is listed as Mod. C

 

[8x57mauser]

Not sure what the Mod. "23" corresponds to. Mod. C ?
Vaughn will know.
In a 1919 sales catalog the 4.5x scope is listed as Mod. C

That was a pretty expensive scope back then. If you figure the exchange rate for German Marks to US Dollars in 1919 then factor for inflation that was like a $411.66 scope.

 

[8x57mauser]

Spent a couple hours today hand fitting the trigger group into the VZ24 stock. Needed to remove a good amount of wood for the set trigger assembly to fit. got it all together now and bore sighted. Going to try and get it to the range Tuesday, need to load some ammo first.

 

[8x57mauser]

Went out to the range today with some hand loads. 175gr SMK over 47gr IMR 4895. Range was out at 200 meters. Gun shows some promise, need to do a little adjustment. The first two shots were touching in this group, the last three started to open up, not sure what happened there. Going to go load up some more ammo and hopefully off to the range Friday again.

 

[vaughn99]

Hello,

the 23 was the Gerard model C nice set up you did good!!!

later
vaughn