Just arrived. Israeli semi Kriegsmodell
- Thread starter MSB629
- Start date
WAZUP13579
Senior Member
What???
Thats an FN made one right? How is that a KM?
Thats an FN made one right? How is that a KM?
MSB629
Well-known member
The stock is a semi Kriegsmodell. Later Isreal had their rifles changed to 7.62. FN made the modification. The stock is identical to my dot 1944 which also is a semi - Kriegsmodell. The stocks are identical except the Isreali stock hasn't a bolt takedown, instead it has the hole drilled on the metal of the buttplate. Front band is pinned (I know they are usually screwed in). The handguard has a spring retainer. No hole in the wood for a cleaning rod, but there is a hole drilled in the metal for one.
If K98k's are defined by the barrel it carries then I'm wrong and would appreciate knowing what to call it. Ive seen Garands which have been rebarrelled. To the best of my knowledge they are still Garands. However caliber is always noted
Back to the Isreali rifle, having FN make a later change to the barrel seems to negate the stocks lineage.
is FN 7.62. However that doesn't negate the point that this stock began life as a semi Kriegsmodell used by and/or made for the German army.
That's my take anyway. I'm sure as more photos are provided & more input given, I'll at least learn what to call this old war-horse.
If K98k's are defined by the barrel it carries then I'm wrong and would appreciate knowing what to call it. Ive seen Garands which have been rebarrelled. To the best of my knowledge they are still Garands. However caliber is always noted
Back to the Isreali rifle, having FN make a later change to the barrel seems to negate the stocks lineage.
is FN 7.62. However that doesn't negate the point that this stock began life as a semi Kriegsmodell used by and/or made for the German army.
That's my take anyway. I'm sure as more photos are provided & more input given, I'll at least learn what to call this old war-horse.
Your stock looks like the post WW2 version FN made for their Israeli order, or maybe a Czech, post WW2 made stock. Photos of the bandspring setup would probably confirm. Your rifle is a postwar FN made receiver that was re-barreled to 7.62 sometime starting in the late 1950's. It's a nice example, but not German, or a WW2 semi-Kriegsmodell.
The "Star of David" crest rifles are post WW2 FN new made rifles. Delivered in late 1940's with a new made stock pattern like your example. They loosely resemble the WW2 German Kriegsmodell stock except they had a bayonet lug and a small band spring holding on the lower band only. The Czechoslovakians also made stocks after the war that were similar to the wartime made stocks for the Germans.
Yes, that is post WW2 FN made stock.
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MSB629
Well-known member
Thank you for that Stan. I knew that the Isrealis got whatever arms they could as fast as they could. I was under the impression that Isreal obtained K98k's which were then barreled in 7.62. I see difference in the band spring & pinning of the front band. Other than those areas these seem to me to be new old stock (leftover from end of war). I'm basing this on my semi Kriegsmodell dot 1944. Keep challenging - it facilitates learning!
The Israelis did get a lot of German, WW2 K98k's and other Mausers from the start. You can probably find just about any Mauser that was converted to the K98k pattern by them, including WW1 Gew 98's as well as the post WW2 made Czech and Belgian (FN) K98k pattern rifles. Most got converted to 7.62 in the late 50's.
To my knowledge, FN didn't make complete rifles during the German occupation. They did make K98K bolt bodies, and I think barrels and maybe other small components, but not Kriegsmodell pattern stocks. Vanderlinden's FN book states that no surplus parts were used for the Israeli rifle order. Only new, post war made components.
MSB629
Well-known member
That's good to know. Perhaps I should have purchased a Mauser. I'm still a bit confused regarding the similarities between the FN & a Kriegsmodell. This has the hole for the cleaning rod, the bolt takedown hole in the metal buttplate. These serve no purpose (especially the former) except for extra time & cost
My K98k barrel fits into the stock & my K98k bolt slides in perfectly (into FN). Pardon my ignorance. I appreciate your patience. Learning about the K98k is massively different than learning Garands or M1 Carbines.
My K98k barrel fits into the stock & my K98k bolt slides in perfectly (into FN). Pardon my ignorance. I appreciate your patience. Learning about the K98k is massively different than learning Garands or M1 Carbines.
MSB629
Well-known member
Regarding FN making K98K bolt bodies, and I possibly barrels. Is it possible they rebarrelled a K98k when Isreal was looking to consolidate ammo & went to 7.62?
Again, I appreciate your time. As a senior member you must go thru lots of these conversations with K98k newbies!
Again, I appreciate your time. As a senior member you must go thru lots of these conversations with K98k newbies!
MSB629
Well-known member
Stan, ran across this article which might make it easier on ya'll next time a newb wonders why his/her Israeli K98k isn't one. The link does a great job detailing when Isreal obtained their 'K98k's' & where they were made. Mine as you pointed out is an FN model 1930 & the differences between the two. Thx again
athlonoutdoors.com
Israeli K98: How the Jewish State Acquired German Rifles After WWII
One of history’s great ironies is that the fledgling state of Israel, predominantly made up of pre-war Zionists and Jewish
athlonoutdoors.com
heavy_mech
RKI- Reasonably Knowledgable Individual
FN never made K98k pattern rifles although theirs were similar. They did provide bolt bodies (exclusively to MO I believe) and barrels. I'm not aware of other parts.
The drilled hole for the bolt takedown was a labor and material saving change versus the original takedown disc and introduced with the semi-Kriegs stocks.
The drilled hole for the bolt takedown was a labor and material saving change versus the original takedown disc and introduced with the semi-Kriegs stocks.
MSB629
Well-known member
I have an Israeli 7.62 barrel & reciever in what looks like a semi Kriegsmodell stock with minor differences regarding the bands. It was pointed out to me that this isn't a semi Kriegsmodell, but an FN made rifle.
The Germans designed in a lot of labor intensive work the bolt take down disc being one example. The stock of this rifle has most the semi Kriegsmodell features. No takedown disc, instead it has the hole drilled in the buttplate, hole drilled in the metal for the cleaning rod but no corresponding hole drilled in the stock. Is it possible that this receiver, barrel & sights were assembled into a K98k. This stock hasn't been mucked with & I see no signs of the normal stamps Germans love to plaster on just about everything.
From input from other forum members the differences between an FN & K98k were pointed out & this rifle has the thin band holding the hand guard & the front band is pinned instead of having it held in place with spring plate (?)
From everything I learned from this post & from additional reading this rifle is an FN model 1930
The part which makes no sense is making a front band with a hole drilled in the metal but not the wood. I'm not sure the hole drilled thru the buttplate makes any sense either. Not trying to make this FN a K98k, just trying to understand how it got into this configuration.
The Germans designed in a lot of labor intensive work the bolt take down disc being one example. The stock of this rifle has most the semi Kriegsmodell features. No takedown disc, instead it has the hole drilled in the buttplate, hole drilled in the metal for the cleaning rod but no corresponding hole drilled in the stock. Is it possible that this receiver, barrel & sights were assembled into a K98k. This stock hasn't been mucked with & I see no signs of the normal stamps Germans love to plaster on just about everything.
From input from other forum members the differences between an FN & K98k were pointed out & this rifle has the thin band holding the hand guard & the front band is pinned instead of having it held in place with spring plate (?)
From everything I learned from this post & from additional reading this rifle is an FN model 1930
The part which makes no sense is making a front band with a hole drilled in the metal but not the wood. I'm not sure the hole drilled thru the buttplate makes any sense either. Not trying to make this FN a K98k, just trying to understand how it got into this configuration.
moconfed
Senior Member
Google.
