Kaigunto230
Member
Summary: Do you buy rare items despite condition? I identified a DAI 大 kanji-marked FN 1910 on Gunbroker with a refinished slide and purchased it for $658 to my door. I knew I wanted a Japanese-contract pistol and this was very cheap, and I knew the seller wouldn’t sell it to someone who’d appreciate it like I would. Cross posted on K98, Gunboards, Luger, and Reddit.
Gentlemen, I’d like to discuss a difficult collecting concept with a story: Should you purchase rare items with flaws? Grab a drink and settle in.
I. History
First, a quick recap on the history of Japanese-used FN 1910 pistols. As Japan moved towards militaristic nationalism in the 1930s, their small arms production of pistols lagged behind their needs. Imperial Japanese Army Officers in particular were in short supply of pistols. Regulations required Officers to purchase their own pistol. Meanwhile, supply issues happened while trying to produce enough Type 14 pistols to meet demand. As a result, many thousands of IJA Officers looked to Western designs, particularly Colt 1903s and FN 1910s.
For the 1910s, there is no comprehensive list or block of serials sent to Japan; that’s relevant regarding collecting these (see below). However, during the 1930s, the Schroeder Brothers, FN’s principal agent in Liege, Belgium, made a contract with an importer in Osaka named Matsuhara-san. Matsuhara imported several shipments adding up to a few thousand pistols (12,000 from 1937-1940). Again, these serials are not in one giant block.
Matsuhara then either supplied the Imperial Japanese military or supplied retailers who sold them to Soldiers/Sailors. Of the pistols sold, some carry a kanji prefix to the serial that was added in Japan. This is the DAI (大) Nippon kanji, meaning Greater Japan. Either these DAI-marked pistols were sold to the military and then issued to non-commissioned officers, or they were sold directly by the Japanese military through military quartermasters. It’s not known. These DAI marked guns are found in the 452000-457000 serial range.
To learn much more about this incredible slice of history, you should purchase Anthony Vanderlinden’s incredible book on FN pistols: https://www.fnbrowning.com/book-fn-browning-pistols-3rd-editio .
II. Collecting Japan FN 1910s and Pricing
Obviously, a Western-designed pistol firing a highly available caliber (compared to 8mm (Type 14/94) or 9mm (Type 26) Nambu) with Japanese provenance is going to be very popular. And as a result, these pistols provide a premium. As I was doing casual research, here’s some listings I found from the last few years, most of them already sold:
1. $3450 with holster and papers - https://www.legacy-collectibles.com...96VYOwxBFrmtzDYarwU4G9pjaxxMDTdfv3m6026vEcqP1
2. $2850 with holster - https://www.legacy-collectibles.com...0U30xjwWZhLxX4AC2BsN0DMSeAHrEvNDxBv65kD5joscR
3. $2450 with holster - https://pre98.com/shop/japanese-ww2...UsXE1drQyrQstgl74ZRpNp6unp9iIrs0kAPXWhzCsOIl9
4. $2150 with holster - https://pre98.com/shop/pending-well...SQez5PqAgJUkqoJZ-6xQ7YFQa4ZXEThnBXdy4dCc9bVBv
5. $2850 with holster - https://pre98.com/shop/exceptional-...KQp7APN-KlMB5FM5hMNbm85hNygdvhfCkx4WT9B8tw1SP
6. $1850 with holster - https://handgunsoftheworld.com/prod...h-japanese-officers-private-purchase-holster/
7. $1050 hammer/about $1400 after fees/taxes/shipping - Interesting, only 98 serials away from mine. DAI marked and serial 452865. I bid low on this but think someone got a good deal. https://powellauction.hibid.com/lot...le&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=cpgn_2616082
That said, in collecting circles, these guns are somewhat infamous due to actually proving their provenance. Because the vast majority weren’t marked with the DAI kanji and the shipping records from FN aren’t public records, it’s very easy for unscrupulous initial sellers to pair the FN 1910 pistol with a holster that has some kanji marks/Japanese features and claim that the gun is Japanese used. The stories of these pistols then get handed down and eventually you have disappointed/denying buyers who’ve paid WAY too much for a regular FN 1910 that actually has no Japanese provenance whatsoever.
While doing research for his book, Mr. Vanderlinden (author of the definitive FN books) stated that approximately 40% of pistols alleged to be Japanese are not actually supported by FN shipping records: https://www.lugerforums.com/threads/calling-on-owners-of-japanese-contract-fn-1910-pistols.119137/
Of course, the other way of definitely proving Japanese use is legitimate capture papers that note the serial (obviously, papers can be faked too).
Although I knew I wanted to have one of these someday, they are very expensive for my relatively small budget, and I knew finding one with either a DAI kanji or capture papers was going to be challenging.
III. My Gun
So now we turn to my new example. A few weeks ago, my collecting group was discussing these pistols and the problem of actually proving Japanese provenance. I re-learned about the DAI kanji, these guns’ history, and was wasting time, so I flipped over to Gunbroker and searched for FN 1910s. I started just trolling through various listings, examining pictures.
One of my favorite things in this hobby is finding a gun that the seller has no idea about. It’s how I scored my first Japanese Type 38 in 7.62 Arisaka, and that taught me that knowledge in this hobby can earn you money/get you incredibly interesting pieces at vastly cheaper prices.
While on Gunbroker, I found a listing for a “refinished FN 1910 in .380 with two repro magazines.” The gun was $400 starting bid, 10 days left, and a Buy it Now for $600: https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1043326213
Later, I saw it had been sold for $500 to a non-paying buyer and relisted. Again, I was just wasting time, so I clicked and scrolled through, even though I never buy refinished guns. Imagine my surprise to see a blurry but definitive DAI kanji prefix to the gun. My heart started racing, and then I really began to take a good look at the gun.
First, the seller knew enough to recognize that the slide’s finish didn’t match the frame. It looks potentially parkerized, and man, that was unfortunate. Other than that and knowing he had an FN 1910, the seller didn’t know much:
- I could see it had the 7.65 mark and therefore wasn’t in .380
- When I asked him about matching serials he said “I only see the one number” and wouldn’t reply when I explained how to check for the barrel and slide serials.
- He ignored my offer to Buy it Now for $500 outside of Gunbroker, since it’d previously sold for $500 and he’d then save the fees.
- One magazine is a modern repro (I believe), but the other is original (I think. Could you please comment to confirm?)
- Obviously, he knew nothing about it being Japanese.
Since you’re reading it here, I decided to buy it. Furthermore, after a couple days of anxiously checking to see if anyone else had bid or used the Buy it Now, I decided that I’d rather secure the gun for $600 Buy it Now than bid $400 and hope no one else used the Buy it Now. So I pounced, and the gun showed up at my door a couple weeks later.
Having received it, the first thing I did was field strip it to check for serials, and the slide, frame, and barrel all match. They did, and I knew right away I’d made a smart purchase.
As I said, I don’t purchase guns with issues as a rule. “Hole-fillers” in people’s collections tend to become additional copies and never sold, therefore wasting money that could be spent getting a better example. However, since this gun was literally thousands less than a non-refinished version, and because the seller would likely sell the gun to someone who had no idea about it’s special provenance, I decided I wanted to ‘save’ it and add it to my own collection.
What do you think, and what would you have done?
