Is this Gewehr 88/05 Turkish?

[LoadMan8x57]

Came across the opportunity to buy this very handsome Gew 88/05 but wanted to learn more before driving the 4 hours to go get it. I’m unsure if this is a Turkish rifle as the crescent moon on the cocking piece and safety are a dead giveaway, the receiver has been blued, the bands are mismatched, and the bolt serial seems messed with (unsure how the rear sight is marked, requested more pics from seller). However, it is lacking the telltale property marks on the receiver, the unit marking is still intact, and the rifle seems overall too nice for a Turk so herein lies my dilemma. Seller is asking $650, imagining I can talk him down $50-100 since his stuff has been sitting for awhile and the bolt has definitely been messed with. What do the experts think? Is this a fair price given the issues above? Could it perhaps be a Turk bolt in a German rifle? Any and all thoughts are greatly appreciated

 

[chrisftk]

Came across the opportunity to buy this very handsome Gew 88/05 but wanted to learn more before driving the 4 hours to go get it. I’m unsure if this is a Turkish rifle as the crescent moon on the cocking piece and safety are a dead giveaway, the receiver has been blued, the bands are mismatched, and the bolt serial seems messed with (unsure how the rear sight is marked, requested more pics from seller). However, it is lacking the telltale property marks on the receiver, the unit marking is still intact, and the rifle seems overall too nice for a Turk so herein lies my dilemma. Seller is asking $650, imagining I can talk him down $50-100 since his stuff has been sitting for awhile and the bolt has definitely been messed with. What do the experts think? Is this a fair price given the issues above? Could it perhaps be a Turk bolt in a German rifle? Any and all thoughts are greatly appreciated

It's Turk, 100%--not all had crescents. IMO $650 is steep

 

[LoadMan8x57]

It's Turk, 100%--not all had crescents. IMO $650 is steep

For a Turk, completely agree, thanks for pointing me in the right direction. Do you have any recommendations for books that discuss the 88 in good detail?

 

[Cyrano4747]

For a Turk, completely agree, thanks for pointing me in the right direction. Do you have any recommendations for books that discuss the 88 in good detail?

Dieter Storz, German Military Rifles vol. 2: 88 and 91 firearms is the best, but Paul Scarlatta's A Collector's Guide to the Gew 88 "Commission" Rifle is also good, albeit with a few small issues.

Storz tends to cost more, but if you go to Amazon and the like you'll find yahoos trying to re-sell Scarlatta for $300-500, at which point you're better off tracking down the Storz book. But if you can get a copy of Scarlatta for ~$50-100 it's a decent entry point.

 

[ernie8]

The problem with Scarf's book is it is full of errors . He got a lot of his info from bad sources on chat boards , does not read German and got some bad translations from google . He is very weak with the mechanical part of the rifles and ammo . He got the meaning of many of the markings wrong . When his book first came out I charged money to correct the info for people . This board is as good source of info from the shooting , ammo , history and markings as you will find , and cost less .

 

[Cyrano4747]

The problem with Scarf's book is it is full of errors . He got a lot of his info from bad sources on chat boards , does not read German and got some bad translations from google . He is very weak with the mechanical part of the rifles and ammo . He got the meaning of many of the markings wrong . When his book first came out I charged money to correct the info for people . This board is as good source of info from the shooting , ammo , history and markings as you will find , and cost less .

The section on the history is where I caught the problems. I'd believe the rest just based on that.

 

[AndyB]

You should look at the sights for digits there as that is clearly assignation when east arabic digits there so it was used by Turks. From german units stamp is clear this rifle is a mixmaster, most real done already by refurbishment in Turkey, the front ring is unit marked to 8.Reserve Inf.Regt.1.Company to contrary the lower ring is marked to bavarian 18.Inf.Regiment and Ersatz Batallion, 1.Company, i assume germans delivered to Turkey rifles which were matching serialed or minimum in major parts identical marked. The bolt has a czechoslovak contract bolt parts G88 the hammer piece 45 and safety 46 are from that contract and has not matching numbers, to bolt handle 3690 which was mostly reserialed by Turks later, when on other side marked Z in circle so its too from CS delivery.

 

[Fal Grunt]

Watch gunbroker, there are similar condition rifles regularly selling for under $500 that are not Turks.

 

[LoadMan8x57]

The problem with Scarf's book is it is full of errors . He got a lot of his info from bad sources on chat boards , does not read German and got some bad translations from google . He is very weak with the mechanical part of the rifles and ammo . He got the meaning of many of the markings wrong . When his book first came out I charged money to correct the info for people . This board is as good source of info from the shooting , ammo , history and markings as you will find , and cost less .

Appreciate the info! I’ll look into those options and keep in mind the limitations. Agree this forum is an excellent place for information though as I’ve used the picture reference guides many times already.

 

[LoadMan8x57]

Watch gunbroker, there are similar condition rifles regularly selling for under $500 that are not Turks.

Dang, I’ll have to keep my eye out, that seems quite fair. The couple of times I’ve perused they’re either selling Turks or want like $1000+ for a mismatched rifle in middling condition.

 

[LoadMan8x57]

You should look at the sights for digits there as that is clearly assignation when east arabic digits there so it was used by Turks. From german units stamp is clear this rifle is a mixmaster, most real done already by refurbishment in Turkey, the front ring is unit marked to 8.Reserve Inf.Regt.1.Company to contrary the lower ring is marked to bavarian 18.Inf.Regiment and Ersatz Batallion, 1.Company, i assume germans delivered to Turkey rifles which were matching serialed or minimum in major parts identical marked. The bolt has a czechoslovak contract bolt parts G88 the hammer piece 45 and safety 46 are from that contract and has not matching numbers, to bolt handle 3690 which was mostly reserialed by Turks later, when on other side marked Z in circle so its too from CS delivery.

Thanks! That makes a lot of sense, time for me to do some more reading.

 

[Cyrano4747]

Dang, I’ll have to keep my eye out, that seems quite fair. The couple of times I’ve perused they’re either selling Turks or want like $1000+ for a mismatched rifle in middling condition.

You just need to get into a habit of searching a few key terms now and again and staying patient. You're always going to have a few people trying to flog stuff for way more than it's worth, and once you start searching regularly you'll start to see the same rifles sitting up there for months and years.

Me, when I get serious I spend some time figuring out some good searches and then just run them once a day during lunch. Start watching auctions that look interesting, and lurk around long enough to try and find one that's priced fairly.

 

[ernie8]

The section on the history is where I caught the problems. I'd believe the rest just based on that.

I friend and I have had chuckles on his military articles for years . A lot has to do with his use of foreign words he did not understand the meaning of . One of his articles on Austrian rifles said [ if you used the English meanings of the foreign words he used ] they updated from practice ammo to live ammo and found it to be more effective !! Since he did not understand German WWI ammo , he had a photo of Gew-88/05 rifles being used next to K-88 carbines . He caption was that must have been a ordinance nightmare to keep the ammo straight . He did not know the S ammo could be used in both , you did not need a charger to use S ammo . German military manuals show how to take S ammo out of the charger and put it into the En-bloc clip for use in non 05 guns . A perfect example of taking bad info and embellishing it to make even more bad info .