well its a snowy sunday and i haven't posted anything as of late so I thought I'd put some pics up of some Imperial ammunition. I have a nice collection of Nazi ammo thanks to those imports from a few years back, but had long sought some Imperial examples to no avail. But I finally came across some over the last year and I thought I'd share in the hopes of learning a bit more. the box of 15 seems to be from Polt, and is dated 1918. the label shows "S m R"? is that correct? I thought most of this ammo was of the "S" variety and simply marked as such. the belt was a separate find and interestingly seems to be made up of mixed manufacture. so at least in this case this belt appears to be made up of re-packed ammo? I'm guessing since, only this one clip of five is unsewn and the rest are still stitched in the pockets (50 rounds out of the original 70 are still present). not about to take them out as curious as I am! dates on that one clip are 15-16-17 and are from DWM and Kassel (I'm getting my info from Storz's book which is the best source I've come across). anyway curious to hear from the experts on this stuff since i really don't know too much about it!
Imperial ammunition!
- Thread starter yellowkid
- Start date
Bandoliers are hard to find, unopened nearly impossible, that is a neat item for sure!
Empty bandoliers can run over $100 easily, nice ones several times that, seen them sell on Gebay for upwards of $300 or more. I have never seen a full bandolier but I have seen a couple with one or two full. I bet this one is worth some nice money.
Kent's book on German ammunition is good too, but Storz does have a lot of information.
Here are some Bavarians with them, - Bavarian 39th Reserve Division, January 1, 1916
Empty bandoliers can run over $100 easily, nice ones several times that, seen them sell on Gebay for upwards of $300 or more. I have never seen a full bandolier but I have seen a couple with one or two full. I bet this one is worth some nice money.
Kent's book on German ammunition is good too, but Storz does have a lot of information.
Here are some Bavarians with them, - Bavarian 39th Reserve Division, January 1, 1916
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pzjgr
EOD - bombs and bullets
Yeah, that's some amazing stuff right there...I have never seen a box of WWI stuff...I collect boxed ammo too, and would love to run into a WWI box...I just found a box of s.S. 1934 at a show two weeks ago...earliest I have!
I have Kents book myself, I find its outstanding for WWII stuff and some oddball stuff too, but not a ton of info on WWI stuff...never saw German bandoliers!
I have Kents book myself, I find its outstanding for WWII stuff and some oddball stuff too, but not a ton of info on WWI stuff...never saw German bandoliers!
I am not sure how much ammunition was brought back, - luckily for you, what did come back came back through NJ (Newark Bay)... the brought back material was stored in NJ for years after the war, and the eastern states got the vast majority of the booty when it was dispersed, as it was doled out based upon state contributions to the war (men that served), but I have never read about ammunition sales or such. NJ got about 1,600 Modell98 rifles and carbines.
I suspect not too much of this old ammo was brought back, for one a directive dated September 1, 1918 forbid sending ammunition back home, and several articles from around WWII caution about the dangers of German rifles, the fact that back then German ammunition was not common and not to use 30-06 or experiment with unknown ammo.
As for the official totals, small arms ammunition is not listed, none, - though 61,000 empty shells are recorded and they are listed in the dispersal sheets to the various states. None of it was small arms ammo. Perhaps this stuff was brought back by people that had the authority to do so, Officers or Army Ordnance men, or later by surplus dealers? The Dutch and Belgians did a lot of arms deals after the war, - to the annoyance of the British, but I really doubt a lot of small arms ammo ever made it here, most of it was probably dispersed to the Eastern Europeans countries that never tire of killing one another (the Czechs bought some after the war in a special deal the Entente allowed, thousands of rifles were snuck out of Germany to Russia, I am sure ammo went too), or to China, or probably destroyed (ammo isn't listed on IAMCC lists either though I am sure they destroyed what they could...)
I suspect not too much of this old ammo was brought back, for one a directive dated September 1, 1918 forbid sending ammunition back home, and several articles from around WWII caution about the dangers of German rifles, the fact that back then German ammunition was not common and not to use 30-06 or experiment with unknown ammo.
As for the official totals, small arms ammunition is not listed, none, - though 61,000 empty shells are recorded and they are listed in the dispersal sheets to the various states. None of it was small arms ammo. Perhaps this stuff was brought back by people that had the authority to do so, Officers or Army Ordnance men, or later by surplus dealers? The Dutch and Belgians did a lot of arms deals after the war, - to the annoyance of the British, but I really doubt a lot of small arms ammo ever made it here, most of it was probably dispersed to the Eastern Europeans countries that never tire of killing one another (the Czechs bought some after the war in a special deal the Entente allowed, thousands of rifles were snuck out of Germany to Russia, I am sure ammo went too), or to China, or probably destroyed (ammo isn't listed on IAMCC lists either though I am sure they destroyed what they could...)
Thanks for showing. Great find...BILL
PrayingMantis
Senior Member
Awesome group! Thanks for sharing.
I have a few rounds and a couple blanks, I will post them when I can get some pictures.
I have a few rounds and a couple blanks, I will post them when I can get some pictures.
Thanks for the replies! I did not realize the box was for AP since the gothic letter did not exactly look like a "k" but it's definitely got the red primer annulus so that's nice news. I was also disappointed to see four strippers missing from the belt but from the sound of it I should be happy with the number of intact ones. Both were just lucky finds. The belt was on a table a couple shows ago at Allentown for what works out to less than a buck a round! I don't think the dealer knew what it was and I only noticed it on a second go-round. The box was at a small roadside shop - he had a couple boxes of nazi and when I asked if he had any more he mentioned this and got it out of the back. Good deals and great finds are still out there! As for stuff stored in NJ - ive read some interesting stories too about war booty being stored at Raritan Arsenal. Dolf goldsmith talks about all the maxims in Devil's Paintbrush including some brand new ones that were doled out to vfw's and legion posts on request, with the remainders dumped into Raritan bay when they needed to make room for WWII. As recently as a few years ago I was wandering back roads in upstate ny and came upon a small town. There were two 08/15's and an 08 maxim stuck in concrete in the small town square. I bet they are not registered! I suspect these were part of the same program. I posted a g98 here a while back too that had a steel rod hammered in to the bore with the projecting end cut off (you can see the saw marks on the crown), the tip of the firing pin broken off and the bolt face ground a bit. This was said to come out of a local VFW post so I suspect it was part of the this war trophy program too. I find this stuff very interesting and these pieces have their own history. Plus the idea of 16,000 german maxims sitting in a warehouse in my home state is just amazing.
so it's been a while since I posted this on some imperial 8MM I had picked up. and it's been that long since I found any more, but hey you never know what might turn up at Allentown. 46 rounds all 1918 dated, all from the same maker. and all stained from being on a cloth belt. kinda cool. of course I was thinking how do you display something like this, and duh, I need a 50 round section of a german belt and I'll be all set!
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biggymu
Well-known member
Complete that display!
PrayingMantis
Senior Member
Great find! Perfect accompaniment to the bandoleers.
And that’s a good price on the ammo belt.
And that’s a good price on the ammo belt.
I missed the loaded bandoleer when you originally posted-- what a great find! I'll include my two bandoleers I got from Mike last year-- they include an earlier one and a simplified later war one like yours. The earlier one has a card attached that basically said the vet didn't want the shells in it-- 
Cyrus-- probably a good idea to add this thread to the reference section. What do you think?
Cyrus-- probably a good idea to add this thread to the reference section. What do you think?
OnlyMil
Junior Member
OK - so of course I know nothing about these cloth bandoliers (learning something new all the time). Were they used by special troops (stormtroopers?) or handed out to anybody? They were entirely encapsulated/sealed, torn open upon necessity, and then discarded? Was the point of them to allow the regular soldier to carry an additional 70 rounds along with the ammunition in the standard leather ammunition pouches?
That full one looks absolutely awesome, and the markings on Chris' example also pretty cool.
That full one looks absolutely awesome, and the markings on Chris' example also pretty cool.
PrayingMantis
Senior Member
Bandoleers of ammunition came from factories and were handed out at the front. They were often more practical than the fifteen round boxes and obviously held more. They were disposable, which is why they are so rare now. Soldiers would either break them down to load cartridge pouches, or sling them around their neck and tie the ends to their belts (or use the belts to hold them down, not sure if there was a preferred method). They became associated with assault troops, who would carry sometimes multiple bandoleers.
Thank Cyrus. I've seen several photos of them slung over the shoulder, so it was practiced for sure-- I do not know if that was the SOP, but it certainly makes sense and would help with the weight of that many rounds.