If my bayonet lug is "loose" can it make my bands move after firing?

[bulletking71]

It's a r/c stock I got for a shooter, it's been decreased as much as I could get it so it could last. The barreled action came with its own stock that has the H-band bayonet lug but it's not that great of shape for it to last shooting more than a hundred rounds. If I get a non H-band front band will it stop it from walking forward? I took all of the hardware and upper handguard from the original stock and moved it onto this one.

The band spring seems good but the rear band fits loose on this stock but the one I pulled it off of its extremely tight same with the front band. I'm not sure if I put some fabric under the upper handguard if it will sure up any of the "looseness" in the rear band but I think either the stud for the bayonet lug is short or that it has been bent at some point, the second and third Pic is the left side of the lug and the hole is bowed out in the back. I was going to drive the pin out and see what it looks like underneath but I wanted to make sure I'm not missing something first before I do.

 

[bulletking71]

Any question I can try to answer the best I can, I know the original is alot to look at so I can try and break down small bits the best I can.

 

[Cyrano4747]

I'm a little unsure of what's going on here. Is the lug itself walking forward? Or the barrel band? Do you have a pic with the band spring installed? Because the only times i've ever seen a forward band walk forward (assuming that's what's happening) is when the spring isn't snapped into the retaining hole.

 

[bulletking71]

So I dont know if any of those help, but I don't know how to describe it after I shoot an entire magazine and I finally notice the handguard, rear and front barrel band with the spring has moved maybe an inch or two twords the muzzle. I don't think the spring is weak cause I still have to put alot of pressure into getting it down to get that front band off.

 

[Jdt]

So I dont know if any of those help, but I don't know how to describe it after I shoot an entire magazine and I finally notice the handguard, rear and front barrel band with the spring has moved maybe an inch or two twords the muzzle. I don't think the spring is weak cause I still have to put alot of pressure into getting it down to get that front band off.

In my opinion no, there just not sized correctly to the stock. Your bayonet lug being loose doesn'tean that pin that's holding it in place is walking forward. If it did then you'd have the whole bayonet lug and wood encompassed in it come off.

 

[Peter S]

So I dont know if any of those help, but I don't know how to describe it after I shoot an entire magazine and I finally notice the handguard, rear and front barrel band with the spring has moved maybe an inch or two twords the muzzle. I don't think the spring is weak cause I still have to put alot of pressure into getting it down to get that front band off.

Maybe it would help if you show us a picture of what it looks like when things are in the forward position.

 

[bulletking71]

In my opinion no, there just not sized correctly to the stock. Your bayonet lug being loose doesn'tean that pin that's holding it in place is walking forward. If it did then you'd have the whole bayonet lug and wood encompassed in it come off.

The lug has a little bit of wiggle back and forth after I evened out the pin so I think that aspect is better now. I think for the rear band I might cut up a sock to give the hanfguard I little bit more of a "girth"? And I might just try and get the front band I have now to fit a little better with a vice.

 

[bulletking71]

Maybe it would help if you show us a picture of what it looks like when things are in the forward position.

I actually never thought to take a Pic of what it looked like after I got done shooting it unfortunately.

 

[bulletking71]

Would a h-band work with the bayonet lug I have? I'm wondering if I should either get a new lug or a new band that way it will be a better fit, if the two kinds of hardware don't work together I'm not going to force it.

 

[Peter S]

imho, the problem is with the front band. It is somewhat deformed outward in the area of the band spring. You can see the gap. Because of this, under recoil, the band spring will ride over the edge of the bayonet lug allowing the hand guard and bands to move forward. A properly fitting front band will keep the band spring in place behind the lug. You could try tweaking the band to remedy the situation or find a replacement. Again, just my opinion.

 

[bulletking71]

That's what I was thinking. I put it back onto the stock I took that band off of and it is a very tight fit. I'm guessing that the H-band style of bayonet lug is wider than the non h-band style. I tried to see when the stock was made but everything is so fadded I can't see anything, I might just swap out the bayonet lug with another one. It might be a Russian capture with whatever parts but I do prefer the look of the h-bands over the stamped bands.

 

[Muncher 1953]

imho, the problem is with the front band. It is somewhat deformed outward in the area of the band spring. You can see the gap. Because of this, under recoil, the band spring will ride over the edge of the bayonet lug allowing the hand guard and bands to move forward. A properly fitting front band will keep the band spring in place behind the lug. You could try tweaking the band to remedy the situation or find a replacement. Again, just my opinion.

View attachment 428932

the upper band should be a ‘light-to-medium’ friction fit over the bayonet lug. (meaning that a lightweight soft faced hammer & wood dowel are needed to remove & install them) there are bayo lugs with & without the ‘flutes’ for the H band ‘window’ but there are NOT two different ‘sizes’. I don’t see how yours can be “a very tight fit” & still walk off the front when shooting, something here doesn’t add up. You ‘could’ replace the lug, but they aren’t all identical & the fit may not be better. I would remove it & shim it w/paper so it doesn’t move or wiggle, and GENTLY squish the upper band from the sides, then try it & adjust as necessary. Or replace the band, they aren’t expensive or hard to find.

 

[bulletking71]

It seems like the back part is the only part that isn't tight enough, I still have to lightly tap it into place how it is now. But with how the old lug from the original stock seemed to be wider? It is more of a tighter fit. I think I might just get a random band to make it fit I'd feel better about bending and bending a spanish or m48 band than a original German band.

 

[Cyrano4747]

Don't worry too much about the band being original or german. They're common, cheap, and easy to replace. Looking at ebay right now I see one for $25 that comes with a buttplate, and has zero bids or interest.

 

[bulletking71]

It might seem weird but I dont know if a h band would go on this one? The lug is meant for a stamped front band? I spent like 4 hours trying to see differences in bands on different stocks but I can't find a definitive answer. I wouldnt think the Russians took all of the stock hardware off of the stocks them selves when they referbed them? The only numbers that I can identify on my shooter stock is the serial numbers no date codes or anything.

 

[Peter S]

Oh my God you're over thinking this. Either bayonet lug will work with any k98 band....H, milled, stamped.

 

[bulletking71]

Jesus, my bad for trying to ask a question to the people that are supposed too know everything about k98's.

 

[Cyrano4747]

You're asking the same question a bunch of different ways.

The front bands are all basically identical as far as the critical dimensions go. Milled, stamped, H, welded, whatever. I've got an RC that came to me with a (russian refurbed) Imperial-era Gew98 front band sitting on a mid-late war laminate stock.

Your band is visibly damaged. That's the problem. Either knock the dent out and bring it back into proper shape or just replace it. They're cheap. This is an easily fixable problem.

 

[bulletking71]

I'll figure it out if I do end up bending it back or just ordering a new one. Either way if it's just the Front band then there shouldn't be too much to worry about.

 

[Cyrano4747]

Ok, here. This might come off as a little snarky and if it does I apologize, but I'm bored and feel like really illustrating this because of all the parts of the Mod98 family this might be one of the most interchangeable across the various generations of rifle.

Here's the earlier mentioned RC with the Gew98 band.



Here's a late war c-stock wearing a late war stamped and welded band:



Here's a mid-war milled band on a mid-war laminate stock:



These are all interchangeable. I was going to pull that milled band off the DOT43 up there but I didn't want to take off a sight hood. So here's the late war C stock wearing an imperial band and that mid-war RC stock wearing the stamped band.



And to really drive home the extremes you can pull off with this, here's a imperial era gun I had in pieces on my bench (you can see bits in the background of most of these shots) wearing the late WW2 stamped band.



All the critical dimensions - ID of the band, OD of the bayo lug, distance from the hump on the band spring to the hole the nub projects through, the geometry of the top of the stock and barrel - stay the same across every iteration of 98 action the German army used, so all these bits are interchangeable.

I didn't get this into the mix with the parts swapping up there, but here's a 1941 Oberndorf rifle with an H-milled band like yours. Note that the bulged area on your band is flat here.

Your band is busted. Toss it in the recycle bin and get a new one. You might be able to fix it, but frankly I don't think the juice is worth the squeeze.