How to revive original K98 sling? Tips?

[Gunsmokes]

There are other ways of course. My reason for asking is I spent almost 4 solid years of my life everyday using a sling on a 10 meter air rifle and was a competitor at the state, regional and national level. I've always preferred to use a sling over a rest plus good practice for eventual match shooting with a couple rifles I have I would like to use in vintage rifle matches. (K98K would be more of a endurance test at a local match since there is one at a local range every month) As I stated I obviously don't use original slings for stability in shooting but I would like to find a good quality reproduction too use for that purpose.

Gunbroker often has Yugoslavian or other countries who took the Kar98k in some form slings available.

That being said, any sling who has the same function (through the stock as the originals) will work. It doesn’t have to be a Kar98k sling or sling used on other military surplus. This means many other Mauser rifles whose sling used the same method of attachment would work. Lengths may vary but if you’re wrapping your arm with a sling etc then you might not notice.

It just has to function the same. You might realize the hype pricing around Kar98k or anything close to it will price you out for what you are looking for. Instead look for slings whose function can be used for the rifle and then check pricing.

If you go searching reproduction sling etc you’ll pay way more for the same gain.

 

[Jdt]

Gunbroker often has Yugoslavian or other countries who took the Kar98k in some form slings available.

That being said, any sling who has the same function (through the stock as the originals) will work. It doesn’t have to be a Kar98k sling or sling used on other military surplus. This means many other Mauser rifles whose sling used the same method of attachment would work. Lengths may vary but if you’re wrapping your arm with a sling etc then you might not notice.

It just has to function the same. You might realize the hype pricing around Kar98k or anything close to it will price you out for what you are looking for. Instead look for slings whose function can be used for the rifle and then check pricing.

If you go searching reproduction sling etc you’ll pay way more for the same gain.

Good point. Yugo K98K slings are super cheap.

 

[Gunsmokes]

Good point. Yugo K98K slings are super cheap.

60 bucks on one now from Yugoslavia. https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1068684639

 

[Gunsmokes]

Good point. Yugo K98K slings are super cheap.

Brand new reproduction 45.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1068684364

 

[Muncher 1953]

I think member Aaron on here was involved in making repro slings, maybe I'm wrong. Can I ask why you'd need the sling to stabilize your rifle? Aren't there any other ways to shoot it without stressing the sling?

yeah,but: it’s a great design & makes handling & shooting easier! a $14 repro will work, a $40 atf one looks better, their $80 one looks even better……ever try to quickly adjust a Boyt M1917 style sling? (the kind on M1903s w/2metal hooks)

 

[Muncher 1953]

60 bucks on one now from Yugoslavia. https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1068684639

yeahbut THAT one DOESN’T function the same, the sliding buckle is the best part; the haltestuck could be replaced by any number of things that would have worked the same & used resources more wisely. (IMO)

 

[Aaron]

I think leaving it alone is fine, but conditioning to preserve is the goal. Balistol to me should be good for this unless others disagree.

Leather degrades over time and will crumble after so long. The less changes in temperature, humidity (not too low or too high), mitigated handling, and chemicals used to treat it all help to preserve it for as long as possible. Think museum pieces which are kept very guarded against these things. Deviation or lack of maintenance will eventually lead to runaway leather goods.

Balistol has components to block and stop oxidation, moisture entrance, and has elements that’s give essential oils back to the piece to restore it. Lanolin would be to me more of a barrier and actually cause issues since lanolin attract and draws moisture in. Don’t forget that you use lanolin on lip chap to restore the moisture to the skin for dry lips. But lips unlike leather need moisture and has a body to maintain it. Leather is dead and gone.

"Conditioning to preserve" is as much of an oxymoron as "jumbo shrimp". The best thing you can do for the longevity of leather is nothing. If people want nicer slings they need to go and buy them, there is no magical way to clean up antique leather and make it look newer.

 

[Gunsmokes]

"Conditioning to preserve" is as much of an oxymoron as "jumbo shrimp". The best thing you can do for the longevity of leather is nothing. If people want nicer slings they need to go and buy them, there is no magical way to clean up antique leather and make it look newer.

I don’t have anything to prove to you. Simple online research from reputable museums will specifically state their conditioning methods used. They condition leather goods for a reason. If you try to learn more about it you’ll understand why it isn’t an oxymoron.

 

[Aaron]

Simple online research from reputable museums will specifically state the methods most people use to attempt to restore

I don’t have anything to prove to you. Simple online research from reputable museums will specifically state their conditioning methods used. They condition leather goods for a reason. If you try to learn more about it you’ll understand why it isn’t an oxymoron.

Simple online research from reputable museums will actually specifically state the opposite. The methods used by people will actually hasten the deterioration of leather goods. Basically any document on the matter explicitly states NOT to use any sort of dressings or treatments and to invest in stable storage.

"Conservators discourage traditional interventive treatments, such as the application of saddle soaps and dressings. Avoid interventive conservation treatment of leather and skin objects whenever possible."

"Don't directly apply chemical reagents such as cleaners, dressings, waxes, and coatings: they are not beneficial and will complicate future conservation treatment."

"You can't remove some surface soils by simple cleaning methods, and other soils are not removable at all. Highly deteriorated objects cannot be cleaned by routine procedures so degraded surfaces should be noted and protected so that cleaning will be avoided."

"Perhaps most importantly, conservators now suspect that the surface cracking on many older skin and leather objects may well be due to past "saddle soap" application. Avoid it."

"The care of skin and leather goods has traditionally involved the routine use of leather dressings, solutions of fats and oils that lubricate skin products to increase flexibility. Modern research has shown, however, that the haphazard use of dressings has been the cause of considerable deterioration within museum collections."

"These solutions should never be applied to Native-tanned materials or objects comprised of untanned or semi-tanned skin products. Avoid the use of leather dressings on museum objects."

"Numerous drawbacks are associated with dressing of skin products. For example, dressings frequently:
• darken lighter colored leathers
• encourage biological attack
• form fatty spews at the surface
• oxidize over time and stiffen the material
• wick into surrounding materials
• soften original finishes and decoration
• cause dust to accumulate
• impede future conservation treatment
• contaminate the material for future analysis"

https://www.nps.gov/museum/publications/mhi/Appendix%20S.pdf

"

 

[Gunsmokes]

Simple online research from reputable museums will specifically state the methods most people use to attempt to restore

Simple online research from reputable museums will actually specifically state the opposite. The methods used by people will actually hasten the deterioration of leather goods. Basically any document on the matter explicitly states NOT to use any sort of dressings or treatments and to invest in stable storage.

"Conservators discourage traditional interventive treatments, such as the application of saddle soaps and dressings. Avoid interventive conservation treatment of leather and skin objects whenever possible."

"Don't directly apply chemical reagents such as cleaners, dressings, waxes, and coatings: they are not beneficial and will complicate future conservation treatment."

"You can't remove some surface soils by simple cleaning methods, and other soils are not removable at all. Highly deteriorated objects cannot be cleaned by routine procedures so degraded surfaces should be noted and protected so that cleaning will be avoided."

"Perhaps most importantly, conservators now suspect that the surface cracking on many older skin and leather objects may well be due to past "saddle soap" application. Avoid it."

"The care of skin and leather goods has traditionally involved the routine use of leather dressings, solutions of fats and oils that lubricate skin products to increase flexibility. Modern research has shown, however, that the haphazard use of dressings has been the cause of considerable deterioration within museum collections."

"These solutions should never be applied to Native-tanned materials or objects comprised of untanned or semi-tanned skin products. Avoid the use of leather dressings on museum objects."

"Numerous drawbacks are associated with dressing of skin products. For example, dressings frequently:
• darken lighter colored leathers
• encourage biological attack
• form fatty spews at the surface
• oxidize over time and stiffen the material
• wick into surrounding materials
• soften original finishes and decoration
• cause dust to accumulate
• impede future conservation treatment
• contaminate the material for future analysis"

https://www.nps.gov/museum/publications/mhi/Appendix%20S.pdf

"

View attachment 411821

Didn’t claim to use saddle soaps. Don’t claim that it’s to be used in conditioning. Museums do use conditioning treatments to bring leather back. Argue with someone else.

 

[Aaron]

I think member Aaron on here was involved in making repro slings, maybe I'm wrong. Can I ask why you'd need the sling to stabilize your rifle? Aren't there any other ways to shoot it without stressing the sling?

Yes we are making repro slings, excellent quality but some members did not like the idea of high quality repro slings using original hardware. I found it ironic considering the same people will post restored rifles using armorers parts or other components that can be mistaken by future collectors as original, or even go so far as to modify original parts to make clones. These slings are good, but there is no way to fake 80+ years of age and are easy to ID as repro. If anyone is interested they can message me privately.

 

[Scharf]

It all depends where there leather goods were found, if they stayed in acidic or salin environments then yes, you have no other choice than to use a proportionate response to preserve it best. That's what museums do, Aaron told the tale IMO and I agree with him, less about the very forthcoming way but that's another story. The leather I have on display is 80 years old, not 200 or 500 years old, there's quite the difference there. And even so, I have a blood soaked liner, still soft, had it for awhile and checked every now and then, even photographed it multiple times and nothing's moved. Again, to shoot with them I'd understand, yet, the collector in me would avoid using an original sling. That being said, to each their own I guess.

 

[Scharf]

Yes we are making repro slings, excellent quality but some members did not like the idea of high quality repro slings using original hardware. I found it ironic considering the same people will post restored rifles using armorers parts or other components that can be mistaken by future collectors as original, or even go so far as to modify original parts to make clones. These slings are good, but there is no way to fake 80+ years of age and are easy to ID as repro. If anyone is interested they can message me privately.

On that matter, I was scared these would look too close to originals, for obvious reasons. But if stated that they would have obvious hints as them being repros would be fine by me, using original spare hard ware is fine too IMO, as long as it's not taken from original salty but complete sets. Just my two cents gents.

 

[Scharf]

I remember along time ago, collectors would coat helmet with resin and other oil derivatives, I know it's another topic but I'm glad most people stoped doing so.

I get it though, when you have minty items no one really go through this line of thinking, but as soon as there is an ounce of supericial rust or dust on leather parts big measures are taken. Probably not always for the best, I have resined myself not to do anything as I'm no lab expert or currator. The one thing I can do is monitor the lighting and temperature, so far, so good.

I still read from time to time some claims, that rust / mold and the likes, are diseases that require treatments but of course that's not the case. It has everything to do with the environment it is stored in, and it won't "spread" if the conditions are not met.

 

[Gunsmokes]

It all depends where there leather goods were found, if they stayed in acidic or salin environments then yes, you have no other choice than to use a proportionate response to preserve it best. That's what museums do, Aaron told the tale IMO and I agree with him, less about the very forthcoming way but that's another story. The leather I have on display is 80 years old, not 200 or 500 years old, there's quite the difference there. And even so, I have a blood soaked liner, still soft, had it for awhile and checked every now and then, even photographed it multiple times and nothing's moved. Again, to shoot with them I'd understand, yet, the collector in me would avoid using an original sling. That being said, to each their own I guess.

Thank you. You get it.

I’m not messing around with things nor am I suggesting it as Aaron thought. Simply maintain all constants as we mentioned and the leather will be fine. If leather is deteriorating then measures MUST be taken to condition it to remove the damaging component to the leather. This can be the PH of the leather, mold, etc. Not cleaning it and watching it turn to dust is so beyond stupid.
And no one who did any scrupulous research would touch saddle soap or any other modern leather goods treatments as we all know they do more harm than good. Even if your leather is still pliable and in good condition, what you do today will make the difference in another 40 years. Just like humans, what you do for your body now will determine how bad your body is at 80 (assuming you didn’t screw it up before then).

Some folks mentioned oils and lanolin. Each has to be checked for PH and also the maintenance schedule kept. Any measure you use has downsides. Museums themselves know this and have to make calls to either preserve or allow for controlled decay. When something is ages old they will literally use fillers and bonding to keep it intact. This is how leather is kept after hundreds of years. It isn’t conditioning that will do that. But conditioning and maintaining can stave off decay for as long as possible. Again how do you want to be when you’re 80. You don’t start at 70 to get to 80. You start in your 20s and maintain the whole journey.

Just having it in your sweet possession is doing it harm. We aren’t museums with specified techniques and resources to give it the least amount of decay over time. Most of you will house the slings in your safe and call it good. What you fail to realize is that safes can be very acidic environments. From the fire protection board to the fabrics. You’re helping the leather to decay. Even guns can suffer. All that leaving it alone you did still didn’t hold off decay. Store it correctly away from acids, mold spores, light, fluctuations in humidity, and moisture etc.

I’ll agree though leaving it be will be the best bet for the vast majority of cases.

Good riddance to this whole debate. Do what you want to your sling and get on with it.

Here is a video of restoration work. Once leather gets this far out conditioning is out and preservation has to be done. I imagine while people love their slings, eventually the cost to maintain it and have nothing more than a hardened display item to preserve it won’t be worth it for most people. One day all slings will be gone except museums, and even some museums will lose their pieces. Get over it. If we could stop things in place you wouldn’t be trying to argue on a forum.

 

[Gunsmokes]

Thank you. You get it.

I’m not messing around with things nor am I suggesting it as Aaron thought. Simply maintain all constants as we mentioned and the leather will be fine. If leather is deteriorating then measures MUST be taken to condition it to remove the damaging component to the leather. This can be the PH of the leather, mold, etc. Not cleaning it and watching it turn to dust is so beyond stupid.
And no one who did any scrupulous research would touch saddle soap or any other modern leather goods treatments as we all know they do more harm than good. Even if your leather is still pliable and in good condition, what you do today will make the difference in another 40 years. Just like humans, what you do for your body now will determine how bad your body is at 80 (assuming you didn’t screw it up before then).

Some folks mentioned oils and lanolin. Each has to be checked for PH and also the maintenance schedule kept. Any measure you use has downsides. Museums themselves know this and have to make calls to either preserve or allow for controlled decay. When something is ages old they will literally use fillers and bonding to keep it intact. This is how leather is kept after hundreds of years. It isn’t conditioning that will do that. But conditioning and maintaining can stave off decay for as long as possible. Again how do you want to be when you’re 80. You don’t start at 70 to get to 80. You start in your 20s and maintain the whole journey.

Just having it in your sweet possession is doing it harm. We aren’t museums with specified techniques and resources to give it the least amount of decay over time. Most of you will house the slings in your safe and call it good. What you fail to realize is that safes can be very acidic environments. From the fire protection board to the fabrics. You’re helping the leather to decay. Even guns can suffer. All that leaving it alone you did still didn’t hold off decay. Store it correctly away from acids, mold spores, light, fluctuations in humidity, and moisture etc.

I’ll agree though leaving it be will be the best bet for the vast majority of cases.

Good riddance to this whole debate. Do what you want to your sling and get on with it.

Here is a video of restoration work. Once leather gets this far out conditioning is out and preservation has to be done. I imagine while people love their slings, eventually the cost to maintain it and have nothing more than a hardened display item to preserve it won’t be worth it for most people. One day all slings will be gone except museums, and even some museums will lose their pieces. Get over it. If we could stop things in place you wouldn’t be trying to argue on a forum.

Oh and I should mention, some of you will leave the sling on the gun. You oil your gun. You are oiling your sling. Or you use solvents like Hoppes on the metal and oil. Now you’re really doing a number for the leather. The wood the leather passes through, yeah that’s not the best either. The metal it touches in of itself is again adding to the decay. The video above actually happens to show this and explains further.

So much nuance to this than just “leave it alone and I went to a webpage that said what I’m saying so I’m so right about this”.

 

[Aaron]

Oh and I should mention, some of you will leave the sling on the gun. You oil your gun. You are oiling your sling. Or you use solvents like Hoppes on the metal and oil. Now you’re really doing a number for the leather. The wood the leather passes through, yeah that’s not the best either. The metal it touches in of itself is again adding to the decay. The video above actually happens to show this and explains further.

So much nuance to this than just “leave it alone and I went to a webpage that said what I’m saying so I’m so right about this”.

Not to mention, those storing their sling on the rifle nice and tight like seen in barracks photos will cause a massive fold and eventual tear right where the sling passes through the rear barrel band, almost every failure I see on slings is encountered there.

 

[Scharf]

Well of course we can't do better than museums, I cannot recreate a vacuum container to prevent air oxydizing the material. Anyways, that was just my opinion on the matter, never done anything for years and never had issues, or at least none that my eyes could see. As I said, we'll be long gone.

By the way, thanks for the video, very instructive and interesting.

 

[Gunsmokes]

Well of course we can't do better than museums, I cannot recreate a vacuum container to prevent air oxydizing the material. Anyways, that was just my opinion on the matter, never done anything for years and never had issues, or at least none that my eyes could see. As I said, we'll be long gone.

By the way, thanks for the video, very instructive and interesting.

Wasn’t directing anything to you. Actually said you understood the key concept. All good from me.

 

[Gunsmokes]

Not to mention, those storing their sling on the rifle nice and tight like seen in barracks photos will cause a massive fold and eventual tear right where the sling passes through the rear barrel band, almost every failure I see on slings is encountered there.

Agree wholeheartedly about that. Looks cool but won’t last. Sadly these timepieces are limited and the folks who don’t know better are numerous and grow by the day.

Yikes. I wonder when the last rifle will be.

My oldest rifle is 130 years old and functions adjust as she did well back then. To that I thank Mauser for the incredible craftsmanship.