Granatenwerfer 16 or Gr.W.16

[biggymu]

Bing was a toy maker and 16 producer.
Another large toy maker of that period was Karl Arnold.

 

[Slash]

I doubt the 3.1961 is the serial#.
Any other markings?
Thanks

No other markings. I don't think this is 3.1961. I have scores of numbers recorded over 25xxx and as high as 36xxx

 

[Slash]

Bing was a toy maker and 16 producer.
Another large toy maker of that period was Karl Arnold.

You might be onto something here ....

 

[Granatenwerfer]

Off topic I know as far as Mauser rifles, but we do not really have a good sub-forum for miscellaneous/other Imperial German items and you hate to see things get lost or buried. Mods feel free to move this if/as you see fit.

Anyone else have an interest in the Granatenwerfer 16? I completely lack focus and for whatever reasons these things have always kind of intrigued me. Attaching a period pic for those who might not be as familiar. Regardless, over time I've jotted down a few notes on these so called "spigot mortars" including the one in my collection and wondered if anyone else had an interest. It would appear that 10s of thousands of these little grenade launchers were produced by several makers between late 1916 to 1918.

Have documented the following makers:

- Gebrüder Bing AG, Nürnberg
- Rheinische Metallwaren-und Maschinenfabrik AG, Düsseldorf
- R. Stock & Co. AG, Berlin-Marienfelde
- Maschinenfabrik Alfred Wolff, Berlin

From my limited observations Bing and Wolff seem to be the most commonly encountered makers by far.

The second pic below is from another producer as yet unidentified and part of the reason for this posting. Metal placard with the maker's logo of A K in a rectangle or perhaps an open book? Thought it might have some relationship with Konigliche Amberg but that doesn't really work. Also saw Werkzeugfabrik August Kirsch, Aschaffenburg as a possibility but can't find this trademark or any Gr.W.16 references for them. With a serial number approaching 32K they were large enough to be putting out a respectable number of weapons. Any information or thoughts on who this might be as a producer? Or post any information on the these Granatenwerfer here if you desire.

 

[Granatenwerfer]

Been collecting these for years. The launcher is the easiest item to find.

 

[Granatenwerfer]

Two Wurfgranate 1915 from my collection. This model of grenade was actually designed in late 1915 for the Granatenwerfer 15 but carried over as the standard for the Model of 1916 as well. They are often called Wurfgranate 1916 by collectors but this is incorrect. The longer black painted version on the left is an early type with only three tail fins. The gray example on the right is the later type more frequently encountered. Shorter and more robust with four tail fins which improved in-flight stability and accuracy. Both of these examples are high explosive fragmentation versions. The early variant is much harder to find than the later shortened type. One of the fins on the gray piece is stamped RKM15.

The black round has a tail of a signalwerfer projectile. There seems to have been a number of field variations of explosive rounds modified for use in a signalwerfer that started to appear later in the war. This will allow these to be used in a similar fashion as a knee mortar. A standard GW16 round will not fit in a signalwerfer due to safety issues.

 

[Slash]

The black round has a tail of a signalwerfer projectile. There seems to have been a number of field variations of explosive rounds modified for use in a signalwerfer that started to appear later in the war. This will allow these to be used in a similar fashion as a knee mortar. A standard GW16 round will not fit in a signalwerfer due to safety issues.

Thanks for the information! I did not know this .....

 

[Amberg]

I have scores of numbers recorded over 25xxx and as high as 36xxx

I am told they have ordered 70,000 pieces. ??
I have discussed the "A.K." marking with some fellow collectors here, unfortunately with very little success.
In a Wumba document from 1929 it says "A.K." = Artillerie-Konstruktionsbüreau Spandau.
What do you think about this?

 

[Slash]

I am told they have ordered 70,000 pieces. ??
In a Wumba document from 1929 it says "A.K." = Artillerie-Konstruktionsbüreau Spandau.

What do you think about this?

Well, it sounds like it is within the realm of possibility and something we can work with. Thanks for the inquiries and thoughts. I have read the 70,000 units ordered information as well. And from another source, that Wolff alone produced 15,000 pieces in 1917. Below are the high serial numbers that I have recorded for each of the makers:

A.K. - 32,005
Bing - 2,901
RM-uM - ? Only two examples recorded both with illegible serial numbers
Stock - 2,021
Wolff - 29,237

Might help give us some idea of the total number manufactured. Additional serial numbers welcome ......

 

[Northyuma]

A friend just picked this up.

 

[Amberg]

Might help give us some idea of the total number manufactured. Additional serial numbers welcome ......

You probably have this one in your files already.

Original German WWI Granatenwerfer 16 Grenade Thrower with Transit Chest - Dated 1917

Original Item: Only One Available. Totally non-functional and inert having been deactivated according to specifications outlined by the BATF (Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives). This is an exceptionally rare German World War One Granatwerfer 16 contained in its matched...

www.ima-usa.com

Unfortunately the crate is not factory original to the launcher.

Attached some shots showing a transit chest with tools/spare parts and a back carrier for the launcher.

 

[Amberg]

RM-uM - ? Only two examples recorded both with illegible serial numbers

very well might be Rheinmetall.
Rheinische Metallwaaren- und Maschinenfabrik was their official name during WWI.

 

[Amberg]

and it seems that Rheinmetall produced parts (or only the grenades?) for the launcher.
see #59.
Aufsteckrohre zum Granatenwerfer 16 für Stielwurfgranaten
I. Wolff
II. 17?? (Rheinmetall)

 

[heavy_mech]

No affiliation with them but I saw IMA has a 1917 with matching transit chest, spares and tools listed. Didn't look too deeply at their ad, but I though someone might be tracking these.

Original German WWI Granatenwerfer 16 Grenade Thrower with Matched Transit Chest - Spare Parts - Tools - Dated 1917

Original Item: Only One Set Available. Totally non-functional and inert having been deactivated according to specifications outlined by the BATF (Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives). This is an exceptionally rare German World War One Granatenwerfer 16 (Grenade Thrower 16)...

www.ima-usa.com

 

[plymouthmauser]

My great uncle was in the 2nd minenwerfer battalion, 11th Army. Killed at Verdun, April 1916, age 21.

Pictured here at age 15 with my grandfather, age 2, in 1911.
t

 

[heavy_mech]

For informational purposes here's an Alfred Wolff with quite a few photos in case anyone is interested.

Original German WWI Granatenwerfer 16 Grenade Thrower by Alfred Wolff with Inert Signal Flare Round

Original Item: Only One Set Available. Totally non-functional and inert having been deactivated according to specifications outlined by the BATF (Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives). This is an exceptionally rare German World War One Granatenwerfer 16 (Grenade Thrower 16)...

www.ima-usa.com

 

[heavy_mech]

They've got another Alfred Wolff, this one s/n 25205 in case anyone is tracking. Again no affiliation and I'm not a paid spokesperson.

Original German WWI Granatenwerfer 16 Inert Grenade Thrower by Alfred Wolff with Deactivated Fragmentation Round

Original Item: Only One Set Available. Totally non-functional and inert having been deactivated according to specifications outlined by the BATF (Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives). This is an exceptionally rare German World War One Granatenwerfer 16 (Grenade Thrower 16)...

www.ima-usa.com