German? VZ24 rework pickup for review

[learjet]

This one followed me home today...saw it last week, went back today and grabbed it. From what I read this weekend it appears to me to be a German rework. stock disc is blank. rear sight, screws etc numbered which doesn't seem to be the norm, although it sounds like there isn't any real norm for these. one thing I liked was all the markings on the stock by the grip. original Czech?

anyways before I reveal my lack of knowledge on these ill shutup, post pix and learn

thx!

Lear

 

[learjet]

more pix

 

[Pisgah]

It appears to be a German rework. It has the stock disks and a rear swivel filled in with wood plugs along with numbered bands. The Czechs did not do those modifications. Is the bolt matching? It is blued which can be another sign of German rework (if matching).

 

[learjet]

guy with electro pencil musta drank too much coffee, but the bolt appears to be a renumbered match. Stamped on root vs handle, hard to get good pix of the EP'd parts...best I can do

 

[ltong29]

This one looks like a legit German re-work. Bolt was likely an armorer's spare numbered by the Germans as the Czechs numbered along the handle and not the root. Interestingly, it has an Oberndorf armorer's spare extractor. You may want to remove the hand guard to see if it was re-barreled by the Germans. Be careful if you do this since the Czech handguards can crack easily.

EDIT:
Bolt was ground down and had new numbers applied at the root. EP guy definitely had too much coffee

 

[Hambone]

Yep, German rework. Looks cool. If you wanted to collect just all the various sub-variants and weird part variants and levels of modification, not counting HZA depot markings, you could collect only these. I have a number of them, all a little different. I like the acid etched numbering and it shows up on various bolt parts which were replaced on some examples, some not. The standard Vz.24 parts were not numbered, only the stock, bolt, barrel, and receiver, as the Vz.24 was made in but two factories and the manufacturing quality, consistency and QC allowed interchangeability.

 

[heavy_mech]

All good comments. Looks like you grabbed a nice one. I'd also like to see what else you can find in the details.

 

[learjet]

thx for the info everyone. carefully workin the HG now. ill post a couple pix. was wondering about the extractor, never seen one numbered to the gun in the normal spot, with the 42...is it the 42 or the waa565 that means Oberndorf?

hambone how was acid etching done? ive seen that mentioned before, just assumed an ep was used.

thx again guys for the education

Gene

HG off, only barrel marks below..looks like the barrel was pulled, possibly set back and reinstalled, guessin since the witness marks and serial numbers don't line up

 

[ltong29]

thx for the info everyone. carefully workin the HG now. ill post a couple pix. was wondering about the extractor, never seen one numbered to the gun in the normal spot, with the 42...is it the 42 or the waa565 that means Oberndorf?

Both. 42 was the factory code and E/655 (not 565) is the waffenamt inspection. Armorer's spares had the factory code stamped on them to easily identify where the spares came from. Attached is a BSW slider on one of my depot reworks.

Yep, German rework. Looks cool. If you wanted to collect just all the various sub-variants and weird part variants and levels of modification, not counting HZA depot markings, you could collect only these. I have a number of them, all a little different. I like the acid etched numbering and it shows up on various bolt parts which were replaced on some examples, some not. The standard Vz.24 parts were not numbered, only the stock, bolt, barrel, and receiver, as the Vz.24 was made in but two factories and the manufacturing quality, consistency and QC allowed interchangeability.

I'm fairly confident early VZ-24s (maybe 1924-early 1925) were numbered as the VZ-24 wasn't interchangeable until later in production. If you look carefully at OP's rifle, the rear sight does have a Czech style numbering. I believe the magazine and floor plate of this one were numbered by the Czechs. I'm not so sure on the bands on this one. The fonts on the rear sight and tg/floor plate seem to match while the font on the stem is different.

 

[mrfarb]

Nice rifle for sure. May be a 50’s import - is there an 8MM stamped on the barrel at the front band, in the small gap there? I have an S27G with that. Looks like it on my phone, could just be incidental damage from the bands though.


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[learjet]

thx ltong, fwiw this rifle is a 26 i believe. ill look at the fonts more closely and see what i think

mrfarb it may have one of those 8mm marks, i saw it, wasnt sure but decided to buy the rifle anyway. looks like the stamp wasnt struck straight and the 8 didnt show up



anyone have any info on the stamps by the grip?

 

[Pat]

Very, very cool, congratulations! That's a keeper.

There's a chance your stock (and possibly the entire rifle) were captured not in Czechoslovakia, but Yugoslavia. Vz-24s were sold to Yugoslavia in the interbellum period, and would have been swept up during the German conquest in April 1941. There are a number of Serbian Cyrillic characters stamped into the underside (Pic #3 in Post #2), and the 'M' in the stock just above the lip of the butt plate is typical for Yugoslav Mauser stamps.

I think this might be a Mainz or Mainz-affiliated rework, too. There is a circled 'H' stamp in the stock next to another stamp with another 'H' enclosed in a square. I haven't seen the latter before, but it's suggestive. There should be a '1' or a '2' just under the horizontal bar of the 'H.' That stamp is typically found in conjunction with a Mainz depot stamp, and the mixed stamped and acid-etched numbers are a typical Mainz feature, too.

Great rifle!

Best,
Pat

 

[heavy_mech]

Wow there's a lot going on with this one. Amazing how unique each one seems to be. It sure looks like 1926 acceptance and I noticed it still has the early style ladder used on the vz23. I've been trying to nail down how long this first variant lasted in production.

 

[pzjgr]

That is a very cool rifle...interesting hypothesis by ltong29 on the numbering of early 24's....as my '24 dated one has the TG, FP. rear sight leaf, and ejector box marked...Flynaked and I thought they were part of the re-work process (original stock, numbered to the gun but sporterized was German modified) but maybe its the way the did the early ones?

The sheer variety and ways of modding really make these a great collection focus!

 

[ltong29]

That is a very cool rifle...interesting hypothesis by ltong29 on the numbering of early 24's....as my '24 dated one has the TG, FP. rear sight leaf, and ejector box marked...Flynaked and I thought they were part of the re-work process (original stock, numbered to the gun but sporterized was German modified) but maybe its the way the did the early ones?

The sheer variety and ways of modding really make these a great collection focus!

I'm basing this hypothesis on Dave's thread on the other board and Geladin's serial thread on GunBoards. The majority of the later rifles on Dave's thread only have 2 digits on the floor plate and the early ones have all 4. Fly's 1924 one has all 4 numbers.

Geladin's thread quoted this from Andy (not sure who Andy is since I'm somewhat new to this): "Andy said 'I believe in late 1925 was changed to 90% of changeability'." I don't know the veracity of the statement, but it sounds about right. I'm confident that the VZ-24 wasn't 100% interchangeable when they were first put into production.

I think this rifle was manufactured in 1925 to the old 1925 standard, but wasn't accepted until 1926. The numbering on the rear sight is very telling to me, as my 1926 German-modified VZ-24 I1 block has no numbers on bands, TG, floor plate or rear sight. Then again, there seems to be tons of inconsistency with these modified VZ-24s.

 

[heavy_mech]

..(not sure who Andy is since I'm somewhat new to this)

AndyB. He's a member here and probably has something to contribute to this.

The numbering on the rear sight is very telling to me.

Yes when they started all the 2,3,5,6,9,12,13,15,16,19 and 20 had distinctive curls. The individual stamps were gradually replaced rather than all at once. The 5 was one of the early ones to lose the curl. Eventually all lost their curl and were later updated again to a more modern style numeral.

 

[learjet]

Pat it does look like theres a 1 under the H on both the round and square proofs. would have never seen them without you mentioning it. but, w the right light im pretty sure...

wow, got alot of research to do. fwiw the font on the sight stamp appears different then the action serial number. still kinda grimy for pix, but the 4 is open on top on the action, open upper rear on sight. bands seem to resemble action numbers though. so the czechs serialed more parts up to 25? ill put my google fu to work over the next few days

 

[Hambone]

I'm fairly confident early VZ-24s (maybe 1924-early 1925) were numbered as the VZ-24 wasn't interchangeable until later in production. If you look carefully at OP's rifle, the rear sight does have a Czech style numbering. I believe the magazine and floor plate of this one were numbered by the Czechs. I'm not so sure on the bands on this one. The fonts on the rear sight and tg/floor plate seem to match while the font on the stem is different.

The early Vz.23/24s and Vz.24s were numbered on certain parts, including the bands, sight bases, etc. The later, 30s, were not, and usually bear German numbers on those parts. This one looks early enough, looks like '26, to have some numbered parts. It may be a mix, as they usually are, of the original early Cz. parts and German stamped numbered parts.

 

[mrfarb]

Is that.........an authenticator?

Really though, that is part of the depot stamp, Mz 8.

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[Hambone]

Um, I think you drew on it. I gots some Mz 8 but I can't see it. I'm not saying it's not there, I just can't see it. Get the Gestapo Boyz.