Full Auto Bringbacks w/ Capture Papers

fishermankw

fishermankw

Senior Member
Was chatting with someone today and we both agreed that we hadn’t seen any full autos with capture docs. Being the U.S. was already utilizing tax stamps for full autos prior to 1945 I’m assuming capture papers were never issued b/c technically they shouldn’t have been brought back. Thoughts?
 
While researching capture papers several years ago we found some regulations regarding sending back full auto items. If I remember correctly, anyone could bring or send back full auto items until some point in 1944 where the Army realized this was a problem. After this circular was distributed, only officers could technically bring or and back full auto. The Army was most concerned with the sending back of concealable pistols, that’s why we don’t see much paperwork on rifles. I think I have this all saved on an old laptop, I’ll look for it.

I have seen papered full autos. I have heard rumors you could register an MG to this day with the capture paperwork. Not certain on that.
 
Families in the past have successfully argued ww2 mg bring back paperwork constitutes “govt registration” with those guns added to the registry (from mg news article 20 years ago or so). It explains guns being added to the registry post 1986. But there are papered mg’s for sure.
 
Keep in mind prior to the 68 GCA, DEWATs did not have to be registered. So its possible there could be some DEACTed Autos listed on Capture Papers.
 
I was watching this one last fall and the story of it being a bring back and some documentation (a letter from previous owners), legitimate or contrived, drove the price to $58K (realized cost to seller after fees). It actually lacks any true bring back papers/documentation. I had actually dropped a reasonable sealed bid on an earlier auction, a far more desirable MP43/1, but the storied MP44 got the most attention. It was win for me and kept the MP43/1 at a reasonable (;)) price.
 

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ugafx4 said:
While researching capture papers several years ago we found some regulations regarding sending back full auto items. If I remember correctly, anyone could bring or send back full auto items until some point in 1944 where the Army realized this was a problem. After this circular was distributed, only officers could technically bring or and back full auto. The Army was most concerned with the sending back of concealable pistols, that’s why we don’t see much paperwork on rifles. I think I have this all saved on an old laptop, I’ll look for it.

I have seen papered full autos. I have heard rumors you could register an MG to this day with the capture paperwork. Not certain on that.
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You can still. Papers validated in came in pre-1986, and the paper validates its legality. I've seen one MG registered this way. I realize others said this, but I figured I'd add it. I've read that it works on stuff from Vietnam as well.

I'm currently trying to find a nice DEWAT to REWAT, so I don't need to pay 40-50k for anything cool lol.
 
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Each capture paper that we see refers to a certain US Army Circular. This is one of the first circulars, numbered 217 from June 1944. Its worth a read.

WD217.jpg

That was a little too broad, so they honed it up a little bit and released circular 353.

353.jpg353a.jpg
353b.jpg353c.jpg

Notice, nothing prohibiting the bring back of machine guns, and that became a problem so they issues circular 155. This created the standardized capture paper that we see the majority of. They all reference circular 155. If you look at the top of the third page of circular 155, you can see it bans auto weapons from being sent home. Apparently there became issues with the need for a form 6 to bring in an MG to the USA caused logistical issues.


155.jpg
155a.jpg
155b.jpg
155c.jpg
155d.jpg

Source: Mark Castel of the P38 forum did a presentation on capture papers in about 2016 at the SOS P38 collectors meeting. I saved these circulars for my records but he was the one that pulled them originally. He has a registered papered MP40.
 
ugafx4 said:
Each capture paper that we see refers to a certain US Army Circular. This is one of the first circulars, numbered 217 from June 1944. Its worth a read.

View attachment 438744

That was a little too broad, so they honed it up a little bit and released circular 353.

View attachment 438745View attachment 438746
View attachment 438747View attachment 438748

Notice, nothing prohibiting the bring back of machine guns, and that became a problem so they issues circular 155. This created the standardized capture paper that we see the majority of. They all reference circular 155. If you look at the top of the third page of circular 155, you can see it bans auto weapons from being sent home. Apparently there became issues with the need for a form 6 to bring in an MG to the USA caused logistical issues.


View attachment 438749
View attachment 438750
View attachment 438751
View attachment 438752
View attachment 438753

Source: Mark Castel of the P38 forum did a presentation on capture papers in about 2016 at the SOS P38 collectors meeting. I saved these circulars for my records but he was the one that pulled them originally. He has a registered papered MP40.
Click to expand...
Very interesting - Certainly a wealth of information that I did not know. I’ve spoken with mark a few times, he actually bought a rarer Crown/N police pistol from me a year or two back.
 
I find it funny part for section 4 part 3 says No Nameplates from equipment. I've got probably over 100 metal Nameplates taken from German and Japanese guns brought back in lots. Lawyers definitely did their part in the war helping write the rules in the end. Doubt they had a choice
 
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