Firearms of Imperial German overseas forces.

[Warrior1354]

What a wonderful carbine and thank you for sharing Mike as well as your friend. Glad to see it's still in his possession and it wasn't seized by the government in South Africa. Off the record, I've been talking to a good collector friend of mine. I think he has some more documents on Colonial service weapons and information. I'm not 100% sure if I can get them yet, but I think he's wanting to sell them. I'll let, you know what happens.

 

[MichaelWC]

What a wonderful carbine and thank you for sharing Mike as well as your friend. Glad to see it's still in his possession and it wasn't seized by the government in South Africa. Off the record, I've been talking to a good collector friend of mine. I think he has some more documents on Colonial service weapons and information. I'm not 100% sure if I can get them yet, but I think he's wanting to sell them. I'll let, you know what happens.

Thanks Jordan. I'll tell Alan that you appreciated the pictures from him. Alan helped me get my KS Gew 98. Hes a big time collector. So he has connections everywhere down South Africa.

 

[Warrior1354]

Thanks Jordan. I'll tell Alan that you appreciated the pictures from him. Alan helped me get my KS Gew 98. Hes a big time collector. So he has connections everywhere down South Africa.

Well I appreciate him willing to share pictures of his fine looking colonial weapons. And your very welcome Micheal I will let you know if I get more info. Research like this is what will make my Gew98 and Kar98a book even better!

As of now I'm trying to gather as much info I can on Navy Gew98 rifles. That will be my first chapter I'm going to work on. It will be my prototype model of what I want my book format and design to look like.

All I can do is keep brainstorming ideas and keep researching.

 

[MichaelWC]

Here's my article I published the other day KS Gew 98.
https://surplused.com/index.php/2020/05/24/ks-gewehr-1898/

 

[MichaelWC]

This jägerbüchse is in my friend Alan collection. Alan is from South Africa. He sent me these pictures a while back but I've been busy since then.
1875/ÖWG/840c/Sch.D.O.A.430
East Africa:
Sch. D.O.A (no.) = Deutsch Ost-Afrika

 

[Warrior1354]

Very very cool Michael tell your friend these pictures are greatly appreciated. I also wanted to tell you I won a couple really awesome German Colonial pictures on eBay recently when they get here I'll make sure they're posted up for you.

Jordan

 

[MichaelWC]

Very very cool Michael tell your friend these pictures are greatly appreciated. I also wanted to tell you I won a couple really awesome German Colonial pictures on eBay recently when they get here I'll make sure they're posted up for you.

Jordan

Thanks Jordan. I'll tell Alan you appreciate the pictures. I only have one picture with Schutztruppen in it. I actually think it the postcard. I got it from a gun show from a private collector. He took off his postcards in blew them up to a bigger size.

 

[Spartaner545]

This jägerbüchse is in my friend Alan collection.

Oh Wow, this is one of the colonial Jägerbüchse 1871 with an added ejector. This was done as late as 1909 and then again another batch arround 1911 at the state arsenal of Spandau. Really nice to see. Thanks to you and your friend!

 

[Loewe]

Jon Speed and Hans Lockhoven - Jon's words follow

Paul, Here are 2 charts Lockhoven got out of German Colonial Archives in Potsdam near Berlin some 20 years ago. These charts for SWA show numbers of all arms type G 98, 98 Carbines, various pistols and Revolvers, Ammo etc with the various Towns listed on left lower side of charts. 2 charts with and a,b left ,right half sides of each chart. Hope this helps folks learn more about this subject? I have negatives from Lockhoven of G 98 and Model 71 and 71/84 rifles marked for SWA as well as early Roth/Steyr semi auto pistol etc. Regards, Jon

 

[Loewe]

Jon Speed and Hans Lockhoven - Jon's words follow

Paul, here are 2 pics from German auction of Roth/Steyr pistol with SWA police markings. Jon


Paul, my German colonial interest are mostly in German East Africa where I lived for many years. I was based for 10 years in Rufiji River area where the Germans crossed and lots of actions there in WW1. I found trenches, signal posts on top of high hills ,cartridge casing for .303, 8mm, 11mm black powder, and Original German 1917 dated 75mm mountain Howitzer shell case etc. Also found old graves that were later dug up by experts Informed . Even found a snuff/tobacco holder made up from two 11 shell cases the were cleverly made to fit one over the other etc. I have most all original books by Brits and Germans of the war period as well as maps etc etc. Also collection of German coins, paper money, stamps and even have Original book by German General Lettow Vorbeck Signed! Regards, Jon

I added a bit of Jon's personal experience in Tanzania, hope he doesn't mind, but I felt this part of his email was worth hearing as it gives some idea of what the area was like 60 years after the fact.

 

[MichaelWC]

Paul, here are 2 pics from German auction of Roth/Steyr pistol with SWA police markings. Jon


Paul, my German colonial interest are mostly in German East Africa where I lived for many years. I was based for 10 years in Rufiji River area where the Germans crossed and lots of actions there in WW1. I found trenches, signal posts on top of high hills ,cartridge casing for .303, 8mm, 11mm black powder, and Original German 1917 dated 75mm mountain Howitzer shell case etc. Also found old graves that were later dug up by experts Informed . Even found a snuff/tobacco holder made up from two 11 shell cases the were cleverly made to fit one over the other etc. I have most all original books by Brits and Germans of the war period as well as maps etc etc. Also collection of German coins, paper money, stamps and even have Original book by German General Lettow Vorbeck Signed! Regards, Jon

I added a bit of Jon's personal experience in Tanzania, hope he doesn't mind, but I felt this part of his email was worth hearing as it gives some idea of what the area was like 60 years after the fact.

Thanks for the information Paul. A lot great information there. I just had a friend over the weekend give me those same exact charts. My friend wrote a book a while back about the Landespolizei. He told me a lot of the Landespolizei old inventory counts are still around.

 

[Loewe]

Well Jon provided these months ago, but I hurt my shoulder again and that annoyed me so much I forgot about the material Jon asked to share on this thread... I should have provided it on this thread months earlier. My fault, not Jon's, getting old really sucks! Especially if you are active, as I get hurt all the time from things that never caused a second thought... one day I will have to stay in the rocking chair! (though I would probably crush a toe)...

 

[MichaelWC]

Well Jon provided these months ago, but I hurt my shoulder again and that annoyed me so much I forgot about the material Jon asked to share on this thread... I should have provided it on this thread months earlier. My fault, not Jon's, getting old really sucks! Especially if you are active, as I get hurt all the time from things that never caused a second thought... one day I will have to stay in the rocking chair! (though I would probably crush a toe)...

Know worries Paul. Here is some more charts for you Paul.

 

[MichaelWC]

Saw this one in March in a South African auction.
1881/Danzig/9564/? (This rifle is marked with the Imperial Eagle colonial proof mark next to an "S." The "S" next to the Imperial Eagle colonial proof could stand for Spitzkoppe. With an issue number of 2104.

 

[Loewe]

Thanks for the pictures, hard to be sure of its placement or details, but rare enough to place it in the research thread with some question marks and a link here for context. Too few are recorded and pictures to poor to be sure, but a worthwhile addition (I am guessing a u-block, a C/W cypher though that is inconsistent with collected data so far)

 

[MichaelWC]

Thanks for the pictures, hard to be sure of its placement or details, but rare enough to place it in the research thread with some question marks and a link here for context. Too few are recorded and pictures to poor to be sure, but a worthwhile addition (I am guessing a u-block, a C/W cypher though that is inconsistent with collected data so far)

You're welcome Paul. I lost that rifle by a hunderd dollars but I ask for more pictures. I've been training for the role winning stuff down in South Africa. I became friends with the owner of the auction house and he has been helping me with my research. I have fallen pretty deep into the Schutztruppe rabbit hole.

 

[Loewe]

You're welcome Paul. I lost that rifle by a hunderd dollars but I ask for more pictures. I've been training for the role winning stuff down in South Africa. I became friends with the owner of the auction house and he has been helping me with my research. I have fallen pretty deep into the Schutztruppe rabbit hole.

If you have to fall in a rabbit hole, it is as good as any, with a lot of potential towards being original in researching the subject. CB was fascinated by it as well and the only real disadvantage in specializing in it is it is so challenging to find material to establish facts, and principles or theories need to have at least a few facts to serve as a foundation. You having solid contacts in South Africa certainly is a great advantage!

 

[Spartaner545]

Thats one interesting rifle. A Jägerbüchse M/71 with three barrel bands?

Any unit markings?

With kind regards

Vincent

 

[MichaelWC]

Thats one interesting rifle. A Jägerbüchse M/71 with three barrel bands?

Any unit markings?

With kind regards

Vincent

Hey Vincent, love your channel by the way. I asked a couple times about the unit markings. The auction house told me there wasn't any unit markings. I wish I could have won it but on well.

Yes Paul your right. Having contacts has helped a lot. I have a couple in Germany to. Everything helps really.

 

[MichaelWC]

I just wanted to share this SchutztruppeGewehr 98. Fantastic looking rifle. I am happy I asked for more information and photos of it. 1901/Spandau/6958/K.S.4061.S (UDF marked) South African Union Defence Force or UDF (post 1912) marks on SchutztruppeGewehr 1898.
Arrow in U = service
Diamond in U = sold out of service