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Erfurt 1917 Kar.98 in 7x57?

thisistheway

Well-known member
So a friend connected me with someone they ran into in the local gun shop looking to sell a pair of Imperial Mausers he had inherited from his late grandfather, who had acquired them long ago in Chile before bringing them to the US (no import marks, this was a good long time ago).

The rifles are an Erfurt 1917 Kar.98 and a Danzig 1916 Gew.98. Both have all visible matching numbers, all stock cartouches in good shape. The G98 had a dark bore (no big deal, I have a depot rebuilt G98 to shoot) and the Kar’s stock is slathered in lacquer but doesn’t appear to have been sanded given the sharpness of cartouches and visible matching serial. The owner told me, however, that the Kar was in 7mm, and he was certain about this. The receiver is marked 7.92, so I surmised it was either rebarreled or just as likely actually 8mm. Given the opportunity to pick up a pair of nice matching Imperial rifles, I didn’t haggle too hard and paid probably a bit on the high end.

The Gewehr’s bore cleaned up to fair-good, with worn but even visible rifling and a muzzle that passes the bullet test. Haven’t headspaced it yet but I’m probably not going to shoot this one anyway. Happy with an unmitigated all matching Gewehr.

The Kar is definitely a head scratcher. Measuring the muzzle with a gauge it indeed shows as 7, and without closing the bolt a 7x57 drops all the way in and an 8 does not. I pulled the gun apart and the barrel is indeed unserialized and without German arsenal proofs. That said, the barrel’s patina matches the rest of the gun, to the point I’d never have picked it out as non-original without having been told it was a 7 and taking out the action.

Any interesting history of Kar.98s going to Chile and being rebarreled in 7x57 at scale, or is this more likely something the seller’s grandfather had done on his own? Given the receiver still being marked as 7.92 and no visible markings identifying it as having been converted I assume it’s an oddball, but curious if anyone has seen something like this before.

Took a bunch of pictures, but size limit is keeping me from uploading directly. Will downsize them and upload ASAP. EDIT: success!
 

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That all makes sense. I have a set of punches and can easily mark the barrel appropriately. My only concern is that very little of the barrel is exposed, and the thought of permanently re-marking the receiver is not ideal. But, it is a safety issue.
 
That all makes sense. I have a set of punches and can easily mark the barrel appropriately. My only concern is that very little of the barrel is exposed, and the thought of permanently re-marking the receiver is not ideal. But, it is a safety
Mark just the barrel. If it is 7mm, a 7.92 round will never allow the bolt to ever start closing.

You could take a small punch and carefully obliterate the tiny 7.92 on the receiver. Like a single dot on each number or not.
Find out what it really is first.
 
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Ok, so aside from appropriately marking the barrel, does anyone have any insight on the fact of the rifle being rebarreled to (almost certainly) 7x57 while retaining full original military configuration? Was this a common practice at military arsenals in Chile in the interwar period? Or do I just have an interesting oddball?

Also, were Kar.98 receivers originally blued like this or were they in the white out of the factory like Gewehrs?
 
Are there any markings at all on the barrel? Anything?

If it was done by a military, I'd expect something in the way of proof marks or acceptance stamps or at the very least lot numbers. When you're buying a few tens of thousands of a thing you tend to want some way to figure out where one came from if it's defective or otherwise unacceptable.

If it's totally blank I'd lean on it being done by some civilian gunsmith to make the gun easier to shoot in the local caliber.
 
Also, were Kar.98 receivers originally blued like this or were they in the white out of the factory like Gewehrs?
Sorry missed this.

The original, early type of the carbine, built off receivers identical to the Gew98 and sometimes called the "short carbine" were in the white. That's kind of an oddball and not your gun, I only mention it because some of them were labeled "Kar98" on the side wall.

The normal Kar98 that we all know and love always had a blued receiver.
 
Are there any markings at all on the barrel? Anything?

If it was done by a military, I'd expect something in the way of proof marks or acceptance stamps or at the very least lot numbers. When you're buying a few tens of thousands of a thing you tend to want some way to figure out where one came from if it's defective or otherwise unacceptable.

If it's totally blank I'd lean on it being done by some civilian gunsmith to make the gun easier to shoot in the local caliber.
The only marking I identified (I thought it was in one of the pictures but looking through them maybe not) is a "+1" on the barrel underneath the rear sight base (inside the opening on the bottom of the RSB). On the side of the RSB itself there is a sort of crossed hammers marking (pictured) and a triangle on the sight leaf spring (unpictured). The sight leaf assembly matches the rest of the gun.
 
I LOVE shooting the Kar.98 way more than a K98k. It just "feels" better, and despite the reduction in size/weight, the recoil isn't bad at all.
 
I LOVE shooting the Kar.98 way more than a K98k. It just "feels" better, and despite the reduction in size/weight, the recoil isn't bad at all.
I have heard that as far as sporters are concerned the small ring Kar.98 desperately wants to be a 7x57. So having a 7x57 Kar definitely isn’t the end of the world. Especially with as many 8x57 98ks I have floating around.
 
Didn't the Chileans have plenty of 7X57 spare barrels and didn't they mark their military guns with crossed hammers like shown here in the last pic?
 
Might be an afterthought, but the chamber was checked to make sure there isn't a partial stuck brass case in it? I'm curious of the conclusion on this one!
 
Might be an afterthought, but the chamber was checked to make sure there isn't a partial stuck brass case in it? I'm curious of the conclusion on this one!
No partial case in the chamber. Seller told me he’d run a decent amount of 7x57 through it and included a few boxes of commercial ammo in the sale. I figured 7x57 might chamber and fire in an 8x57 albeit with “hot dog down a hallway” results .
 
Wouldn't be the first time someone has confused 7mm and 8mm mauser. When I worked at a gun store there was a man who tried to buy some 7mm mauser for his yugo kar98k. And allegedly had been using it prior.
 
Wouldn't be the first time someone has confused 7mm and 8mm mauser. When I worked at a gun store there was a man who tried to buy some 7mm mauser for his yugo kar98k. And allegedly had been using it prior.
That's what I figured since it looks original. But it turns out he was right, it's been rebarreled to 7, possibly by the Chilean military in the interwar period...
 



Marcus

"Somewhere back around 20 years ago, when I was still into collecting 98a's including Polish, Weimar and 3rd Reich reworks, the Romanian, Albanian and Turk reworks and modifications, Spanish Civil War, etc., I met someone at a gunshow who had an early German 98a barreled receiver that was in 7mm Mauser that had the chamber plugged with lead. Everything looked correct, proper, and original - this wasn't something with a non-original barrel like the Turk carbines made from WW1 98a actions with a Turk barrel and stock. He removed the lead chamber plug and I helped him get all the necessary stock parts, bolt, and magazine assembly to return it to correct 98a configuration.

I never did find out why this carbine was in 7mm. I thought perhaps something used in Central or South America, or Spanish Civil War."

Bodhisattva and Super-Hero, saving the world One Dog At A Time!
 

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