DougB exposes "Champagne Rune" SS Decal Fraud and Adds a Coffin Nail to XRFacts

Considering that template "spay jobs" aren't just limited to champagne rune lids, I'm surprised the lack of celluloid base hasn't been an inspection/authentication point for decades. Is the decal celluloid base generally visible, with or without magnification, on legit lids?
 
Since SS lids are high dollar lids, collectors of these remain a smaller proportion of helmet collectors overall. I think this made it easier for SS lid collecting to be dominated by a few "experts" who looked down on naysayers who had "never even held an SS helmet". You have far fewer collectors to stir the pot by asking uncomfortable questions. Pressure can be more effectively applied to assure conformance to the group's thinking. Those knowledgeable few who knew otherwise often left forums out of disgust, leaving forums populated with 'unwashed masses' who were looking to be led (blind obedience), or populated with sheep to be sheared.

Archived WAF posts dating back to 2004 discuss the flat, sprayed on look, so collectors certainly noticed this.
 
I have not handled an SS lid for some time, but it is my understanding that the stacked celluloid construction of originals creates the sense of depth similar to the stacked ET-KM decal.

Conversely, the painted on C-SS lacks the depth of stacked celluloid and has been noticed early on (2004) as having a sprayed-on appearance. They exude a strange sheen when the light hits them a certain way, probably caused by the light hitting a very flat, painted surface.
 

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My question wasn't just for SS decals. It was for lid decals in general. I would think that if you were inspecting a lid decal with USB microscope at 200x or 400x, there would be indications of a celluloid base visible. Or, at least there would be a noticeable difference between a "spray job" and decal.
 
tjg79 said:
The lid described above will likely figure prominently in the Hicks' "lengthy essay" defending the champagne rune ss decal legitimacy. I wonder if it's got a celluloid base decal?
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What about the blood stains and hair/grey matter?
 
mauser202 said:
What about the blood stains and hair/grey matter?
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If it distracts attention from the fake C SS "decal" or "spray job," then it's served its purpose

Could have been reproduced with road kill. If it adds value, it can and will be faked.
 
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Unfortunately, the WAF thread doesn't have any of the research information. Can someone copy and paste the GHW2 thread with link to this thread? From the comments on the WAF thread, it appears Doug B has produced a very formidable document. The lid collecting community should be grateful that Doug B has investigated the legitimacy of C SS lids and exposed the "spray job" fraud.
 
.....SS helmets..

..... well;;.. my entire helmet collection consists of one beat up m35 luftwaffe helmet. no body is faking them, i hope. i just joined the german helmet site, and checked out the analysis by doug b. about the SS champagne decals/templates. that took about an hour of reading. looks like he has it covered pretty good. very interesting and seemed to cover the topic well. if ya' got an SS helmet, you may be inclined to check it out.... t ps;.. at the start;;.. some photos of his collection are very impressive!!!

... if your not a member;.. you may have to join their forum to read his post...! here is a link, i hope...

http://www.ghw2.com/topic/49701-mythbusting-the-champagne-decal/

..............................
 
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tjg79 said:
Unfortunately, the WAF thread doesn't have any of the research information. Can someone copy and paste the GHW2 thread with link to this thread? From the comments on the WAF thread, it appears Doug B has produced a very formidable document. The lid collecting community should be grateful that Doug B has investigated the legitimacy of C SS lids and exposed the "spray job" fraud.
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I would do so, but its honestly something like 40 posts and 200 photos. I would suggest joining the forum and checking it out in detail. The overspray photos are painful to see. There was tape surrounding the decal template on one helmet, and you can see where the airbrusher messed up.
 
Go there to read it. We'll post excerpts. I posted the original concerns about XRFacts and Hicks' endorsement of it at Gunboards, which was subsequently censored by the mod "Vid" to protect Hicks from scrutiny. Seems like DougB's work tied the Champagne Rune Hoax, XRFacts, and Hicks together. There will be censorship at WAF over this discussion and if this is censored again at Gunboards then it is no longer a place of transparency and intellectual honesty.

We of the unwashed outsiders must remember as the drama unfolds: there is more at stake than ego; there are Hicks COAs backing these apparent hoax lids, which were sold from $5000 to $7500. Hicks must either refute the case made by DougB, which looks to me to be a solid courtroom win with a little expert testimony, or he must pay up on his COAs. This is one of the most significant revelations in helmet collecting I've seen, along with Brian Ice's database research. Well done DougB.
 
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Hambone said:
There will be censorship at WAF over this discussion and if this is censored again at Gunboards then it is no longer a place of transparency and intellectual honesty.
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Gunboards or GB hasn't been a place of transparency and intellectual honesty for years. GB may not censor as rabidly as WAF, but if you critically post on topics that expose well connected collectors/dealers/sponsors/authors, then you will be censored at GB with post deletions, thread deletions and post locks.
 
tjg79 said:
Gunboards or GB hasn't been a place of transparency and intellectual honesty for years. GB may not censor as rabidly as WAF, but if you critically post on topics that expose well connected collectors/dealers/sponsors/authors, then you will be censored at GB with post deletions, thread deletions and post locks.
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I agree. It's sad because it grew into a great site based upon those concepts which it is abandoning. I wonder what ole Vid and Trench Warfare from Gunboards have to say now?

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthr...-quot-!!!-The-XRFacts-forum&highlight=Xrfacts
 
Hambone said:
I agree. It's sad because it grew into a great site based upon those concepts which it is abandoning. I wonder what ole Vid and Trench Warfare from Gunboards have to say now?

http://forums.gunboards.com/showthr...-quot-!!!-The-XRFacts-forum&highlight=Xrfacts
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If you were dealing with rational and intellectually honest minds over there, then it would be interesting to read the realizations that everything that was censored was fact that just resurfaced on other boards. Vid is not a rational actor and he lacks integrity. If you criticized Kelly Hicks, Vid's buddy, then it was a given that Vid would respond with a deletion or lock followed by PMs. Once the posts highly critical of XRFact were inexorably linked with Hicks, the XRF topic on GB was verboden. Vid used his position as a GB mod to attempt to protect or otherwise shield Hicks from the exposed XRF lid testing/authentication fraud fallout. Hicks was a friggen XRFacts cofounder and spokesmodel. The GB owners, Vic and Tuco, supported Vid, so whatever you can say about Vid applies to them as well.
 
Its sad to watch the character of a forum change over time. I find that rather than going to one catch all site, I end up more and more at specialized forums.
 
Well, I read it and it appears to meet expectations.

The Champagne Rune is dead, long live the Champagne Rune!
 
Could someone clue in the "unwashed masses" who do not have a GHW2 account (or lost it)?

A concise summary would be nice.
 
M45 said:
Could someone clue in the "unwashed masses" who do not have a GHW2 account (or lost it)?

A concise summary would be nice.
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The summary is as has been depicted in the trailer. The C SS insignia is a "spray job" that likely originated in the 70's and was legitimized in lid picture books, although some thought they were fakes from the beginning. The identity of the original faker is likely known by some. These lids likely entered the market at shows where they were peddled by fake vets with great stories. Since it's legitimacy, it's likely been faked by others thereby creating fakes of fakes. If you own one of these beauties, then you'll be lucky if you have a COA that's honored, because apparently, some are not honoring the terms of the COA. The main benefit the referenced thread offers is a very concise and uncluttered array of "evidence" and commentary that shows how these are fake without exception. Doug B also discusses the background of the C SS lid history and the fallacy of some authentication methods. If you have a C SS lid and you think it's legit, send it to Doug B and he will show why it's a fake.
 
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