Dealer Re-Marketing Again - New Level of Absurdity

This site, as well as many others are open to any buyer that is willing to put the time and labor into researching a piece before they put down their hard earned money. If they buy a 2K rifle for 4K it's on them. I bought a m1903 National Match C stock at a yard sale for $5. I sold it for $493. I didn't lose a second of sleep because of it. I did almost break my collarbone trying to get the $5 out of my pocket.
 
When I see prices like his I laugh and shake my head. I need a matching 42/1940 to complete my MO war years rifle collection. However, what he originally paid was a reasonable price in my opinion. What he is asking now, while absurd and totally unrealistic, is his business. I agree that people like him are profiteering carpet baggers, but he is free to ask whatever he wants. The best thing that can be done is what you guys are doing, calling out these people and offering a place for discussion and the free transfer of knowledge. I don’t mind paying a little more for something I need or want, but paying nearly double is absurd. Just my two cents.
 
There is a big difference between making the occasional deal and buying to resell or for trade bait or spinning off ones collection and the pseudo dealer / bottom feeder who does this for the income while masquerading as a collector. The people who do the former do so to fuel their hobby. The latter are simply carpet bagging.
 
Hambone said:
There is a big difference between making the occasional deal and buying to resell or for trade bait or spinning off ones collection and the pseudo dealer / bottom feeder who does this for the income while masquerading as a collector. The people who do the former do so to fuel their hobby. The latter are simply carpet bagging.
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THAT is what I have the problem with! Not even the insanely high prices. There's a plumber/tilesetter in GA that's sold 100s of guns in the last 6 month or so playing this game. The guy that's been 'selling off his 40 year collection' yet BIN and then relists it for significantly more money. That's specifically stated no-go with an 03. And they're NOT collectors despite what they'll tell you. Oh wait... they are collectors. Of money.

And as Ham pointed out they cheat EVERYONE up and down the line from the new interested collector, other legit dealers and the IRS.
 
There was discussion of the type of buyer of these super price-gouged pieces in a previous thread like this, which steered me to the idea that the large majority of legitimate buyers of these abnormally high priced pieces, humped or not, are people with too much money and not enough brains (or perhaps the time to learn, to be fair). People with newly gained inheritance, instant millionaires, or people who have had large sums of money all their life but have only just stumbled upon military surplus collecting. I'd guess they tend to care more for the rarity and collector status of the items than their variations, history, or significance. That's fine, whatever floats their boats.

There are surely other types who buy these:
- new collectors of modest income who are in it for the history, but haven't learned enough and couldn't bring themselves to wait before buying,
- other dealers who are hoping to turn a profit as well but either don't know market prices well enough to stop themselves from being fleeced or are brazen enough to boost the price out into the stratosphere anyway
- tempted veteran collectors? (surely the minority)

But the two groups who are most likely to have the income/wealth to sneeze at a $4k price tag are the instant millionaires and the other dealers. All I'm saying is we should definitely educate newcomers to the point where they see the ridiculousness of this, but I don't think we'll be making enough of a dent in the dealer's income for anything to change. They probably know exactly who they're selling to, and that there are enough of them to keep the dealer afloat no matter what an educated collector community says. I hope I'm wrong though.
 
You're right, Bruce. It's not a bad rifle. I'd be pleased to own it myself.

Increasingly we see items listed on GB at a high opening bid or reserve, like we see here. The seller is likely using GB to advertise. The real deal will be done on the side, cutting GB out of its fees. Look for an ENDED banner as the seller ends the auction.
 
If someone wants to build a brand, be a staple/resource for their community, provide a real service, that's one thing. If they just want to stalk the same honey pots that the collectors are in to resell to the same collectors.. that's a valueless business that could disappear tomorrow and hurt no ones feelings.
 
phillynick said:
If someone wants to build a brand, be a staple/resource for their community, provide a real service, that's one thing. If they just want to stalk the same honey pots that the collectors are in to resell to the same collectors.. that's a valueless business that could disappear tomorrow and hurt no ones feelings.
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Bingo, but they don't care. They are simply going to shite up the markets, exploit, and profiteer as long as they can, exploiting us for the free information, exploiting our sources, and exploiting us by price gouging us. Parasitic shitbirds.
 
Yes I agree, way overpriced but rifles are getting scarce almost impossible to find, I have looked for at least 5 years for my holy grail but still no look. What other options are there for people unwilling to wait with money to burn?
 
I just looked at the seller's other auctions. He has 14 pages of items with bids on only a few. Probably because he is so high priced on everything.

I wonder if he makes much money with such prices.
 
mauser99 said:
The problem with this is there are two trains of thought. One the collector and the other from a business stand point.

Being collectors we all want deals and want an even playing field across the boards but this isn't realistic.

From a business standpoint this guy is in business any firearm is a commodity doesn't matter if its a k98 or luger , colt ect. He is out to make a profit. Same as any company out there. I think there is a lot of speculation with certain things certain items ect. It does suck spending all our free time trying to find items only to find something and hope no one else sees it. This is a fantasy theory that is getting worse as time goes on. There are tons of smaller auctions out there and even the smallest now are on line and are searched daily by tons of people I often see these smaller venues bringing stupid money for items. I haven't bought anything from my local house in years due to this. Also, the commissions they charge and tax and fees are getting out of line. All we can do to protest is stop buying from them.

Nothing is going to stop what has happened here if it did would be to stop free market and can adopt communism and that's not a good scenario also.

The price he is asking may not seem realistic but, its his to ask in a free market. I also feel a robust market and a incline of price of K98's is only a benefit to those who own them. Unfortunately with any collectable the market is very unstable.
A peak now could mean a heavy drop later as interests change. Just like the Luger market.

We always say collect what you like because you like it not what its worth or what it might be worth. That way either way feast or famine you own what you love.

There have been a lot of posts lately baulking at what people are paying for items. If the items are legit the money is theirs to spend freely it's a sign of a robust market for these items. A good thing for us. My2cents.
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Happened with civil war stuff in the 90s. Eventually prices got so high that there were more collectors dropping out than new collectors joining in. That crashed..
Now it's WW1 and WW2. Sadly we are reaching that point as well, where new collectors won't bother due to the price tag and whoever is here is whoever is here, slowly dropping off either due to changing interests or old age.

Some people call it a "bubble". In reality it's more like a tide. Look at lugers, the prices got stupid overnight FAST. So people jumped ship to P38s which 5 years ago were going on average half of what they are today. Now those too are expensive. People want something they can actually afford to collect. $3000-4000 K98K rifles help nobody in the long run.

But a locust does not question what happens when it and it's brothers are done devouring a field. They simply move onto the next one.
 
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mauser99 said:
I agree with you totally.. These things will self correct.. One thing that turns people away can be price. The whole "k98's are too expensive so I'm not going to bother". This is a real thing and it will bring prices down. G/K43's had a major spoke and they have softened from that peak. G41w's and m's also. Once people stop buying the price has to adjust to a point where they start biting again.

I personally thinks its far more important to focus on deceit and fraud than the markup of honest items. What has really driven the price up is supply and demand. So few nice items coming to market due to all the good stuff is kept. Its a self created crisis if you want to look at it that way..

If you look at the buffed up turd byf42 that sold for 4k plus I cant recall the actual price this 42/40 seems like a deal..



There are many facets to this topic and discussion.
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Fantastic post.
 
Civil war market is a perfect example I remember seeing a decent Springfield musket priced at $2000 and up back in 2007. Now they are sitting on tables for $600 and still no takers. Same with sharps rifles you couldn't touch a nice one without paying up to $4000-$6000 for one. Now their barely bringing $1500-$2000 and their sitting on tables.
 
ncreptile said:
Happened with civil war stuff in the 90s. Eventually prices got so high that there were more collectors dropping out than new collectors joining in. That crashed..
Now it's WW1 and WW2. Sadly we are reaching that point as well, where new collectors won't bother due to the price tag and whoever is here is whoever is here, slowly dropping off either due to changing interests or old age.

Some people call it a "bubble". In reality it's more like a tide. Look at lugers, the prices got stupid overnight FAST. So people jumped ship to P38s which 5 years ago were going on average half of what they are today. Now those too are expensive. People want something they can actually afford to collect. $3000-4000 K98K rifles help nobody in the long run.

But a locust does not question what happens when it and it's brothers are done devouring a field. They simply move onto the next one.
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It's reaching a point where I am beginning to lose interest.
 
I have been unable to afford (well I suppose not willing to fork out what I think is an absurd amount) a matching K98k, and I have been at this for about 6 years now since I first got the bug from a total mismatch yugo with peened dirty birds. I've found that sporters are actually a decent way to collect, and currently I have ten in various stages of restoration while I find matching WaA's (serials are impossible, WaA's not so much). For 250 dollars, I have usually gotten one of three combos: Matching action and bolt with missing front stock hardware, matching action matching bolt mismatched to each other, or all matching stock hardware, action, and all matching bolt that is mismatched to the rifle. a 250 dollar action mated to a 200 dollar stock magically becomes an 800-1000 rifle for some people apparently, because that's what sells at every show I go to or site I go on. For the foreseeable future restorations are the only viable way for new collectors to enter the hobby.
 
Aaron said:
I have been unable to afford (well I suppose not willing to fork out what I think is an absurd amount) a matching K98k, and I have been at this for about 6 years now since I first got the bug from a total mismatch yugo with peened dirty birds. I've found that sporters are actually a decent way to collect, and currently I have ten in various stages of restoration while I find matching WaA's (serials are impossible, WaA's not so much). For 250 dollars, I have usually gotten one of three combos: Matching action and bolt with missing front stock hardware, matching action matching bolt mismatched to each other, or all matching stock hardware, action, and all matching bolt that is mismatched to the rifle. a 250 dollar action mated to a 200 dollar stock magically becomes an 800-1000 rifle for some people apparently, because that's what sells at every show I go to or site I go on. For the foreseeable future restorations are the only viable way for new collectors to enter the hobby.
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Aaron you can get lucky just have to be patient my friend and at the right moment and opportunity. I was able to find an almost all matching 1940 660 code with duffle cut stock at an estate auction for under $200 back in 2014. Trust me that one rifle you're on the hunt for will pop up when you least expect it never give up hope.
 
Warrior1354 said:
Aaron you can get lucky just have to be patient my friend and at the right moment and opportunity. I was able to find an almost all matching 1940 660 code with duffle cut stock at an estate auction for under $200 back in 2014. Trust me that one rifle you're on the hunt for will pop up when you least expect it never give up hope.
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This cant be stressed enough... If you are in it for the long haul you need patients. This is something lacking more and more with people mostly younger people. Not saying its bad but, its what they know. The interweb has changed things forever for sure and the point and click world of "buy it now" has changed collecting forever.

I don't consider myself old not yet anyways but, When a lot of us started just the sheer lack of info and the driving and looking involved we did would have turned most everyone away. There was no internet it was books that sucked and looking and asking for help from others you knew and that might be only enough to count on one hand. Guys who have stuck it out for 30+ or more years that takes dedication. Not many can do it as humans get bored easily and change direction often.

My collecting has morphed multiple times since I started and will probably change again before I die.. I like learning about new things and getting an education along the way is gift we give to each other.

These forums are a godsend if managed properly and info posted is correct. Thankfully this one is !

Don't let stupid prices seen and paid deter you from seeking out what you want. Its out there and can be found if you put the time in. Its not easy it has to be a labor of love as they say.
 
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I like learning about new things and getting an education along the way is gift we give to each other.

Very well said mauser99. Knowledge is a precious gift to give and receive.
 
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