Bond drive Gewehr 98

[72usmc]

The last one I saw looked normal, no rust and was $400 about 2 years ago. Gun Collector magazine had a nice write up by John Wall in this issue. It is worth buying a backissue. The rifles have a lead plug or metal rods in the barrel and a cut firing pin. On some, the bolt face is ground flat or may have a welded firing pin hole. Too bad that sat in a basement or attic. Nice collectable piece of history. The one I saw had an original sling. For the condition and lack of sling, I'd say the price is high. How bad do you want one for the collection? It's not worth removing the rods and getting a new bolt for a shooter. You destroy a type specimen and end up with a dog. I'd just search out a Turk Gew 98 as a shooter. The issue of Gun Collector is Vol. 31 No. 6, 2009, pp. 27-29. It is nice to have an all matching Gew 98, a VFW GEW rifle, and a Turked Gew 98.

Another war-bond Gew98

www.gunboards.com

War Bond 1917 DWM Gew98

www.gunboards.com

Miller's war bond is perfect.

1916 Mauser Oberndorf GEW98 - So Close to Matching, but...

www.gunboards.com

 

[chrisftk]

I bet this one would clean up nicely with brass, oil and patience.

 

[PatickD]

I own one. The barrel is actually budged by the front sight. Completely cracked. Definitely couldn’t make mine safe.

 

[72usmc]

Actually removing the rods, one may see damage to the rifling. I kept mine intact as a type specimen. Sort of like a drill rifle. I figured a stock at $250-300, the sling at $150, cleaning rod $ 75. At $500 the rifle would be a fair price. I'd grab it if it had a rod and definitely if it had its sling. But the condition is like an RTI special

 

[PrayingMantis]

Value wish I think @72usmc is on the mark, I’d only add that early rifles with unit identification will fetch a little more. It’s great to see more people appreciating Bond Rifles though. When one was posted here in 2013 some jackass tried to throw shade on it because it couldn’t fire. They are interesting Gews with a cool story, and should be valued as such.

what do I have?

I know its a 1905 DWM! what I mean is, what do these modifications mean? I bought this g98 over 20 years ago at a street fair in Nyack NY. all the local businesses etc were clearing out stuff and contributing; the folks that were selling this said it came out of the VFW post nearby. everything...

www.k98kforum.com

 

[72usmc]

The buyer may find this interesting:

Rarity of Gew.98's and Lebel's vs SMLE's

Hi, As a UK collector of deactivated guns I've long been puzzled as to why there seem to be far more WWI SMLE's for sale than Gew.98's or Lebel's? (especially the latter) I would assume that all three models were made in their hundreds of thousands, (millions?) but only SMLE's still seem to be co...

www.greatwarforum.org

To provide some perspective, wire wheeled Gew 98s from Ethiopia with filty, cracked stocks, rust, and sewer pipe bores were sold at $999. Some had missing parts. So if a high roller, maybe $700 is fair in today's crazy market. If you got it spend it....

Honestly, I do not see a cleaning rod and way too much surface rust that may be reduced by soaking a month in a gallon of Kriol and a quart of old tranny fluid. Maybe light electrolysis, but that leaves no patina and pits -similar to a wire wheel. Ruins a firearm and turns it into junk. As is, that rifle is perfect for display as an example in a museum that shows what happens to firearms left in the field or subjected to poor storage. But the price is at top value. I still say offer $500 in five cash bills. The seller is a fool if he does not take it. Condition, condition, missing part that is $75.
At a gun show, i'd buy it for display as is, at $400 and call me an old fool. You see about one a year at shows in WI. And all are in better condition!

 

[OnlyMil]

If you want a shooter type, affordable, representation of a Gewehr 98, I would suggest picking up a Turk'ed rifle. One that the Germans sent to the Ottomans at the end of WWI. They are commonly seen as 1918 WMO rifles. I saw THREE at the last gun show I went to this past Saturday. They have mismatched parts but are still legit as reworked by the Turks. Usually go for around what you are looking at with this bond rifle, with a lot less restoration and no questioning of shooting safety.

 

[Cyrano4747]

If you want a shooter type, affordable, representation of a Gewehr 98, I would suggest picking up a Turk'ed rifle. One that the Germans sent to the Ottomans at the end of WWI. They are commonly seen as 1918 WMO rifles. I saw THREE at the last gun show I went to this past Saturday. They have mismatched parts but are still legit as reworked by the Turks. Usually go for around what you are looking at with this bond rifle, with a lot less restoration and no questioning of shooting safety.

Mmmm, "no question" is maybe pushing things. I've owned a fair few Turkish rifles (both domestically produced and German manufactured guns) and shot even more of them, and on the whole yes they are good, intact guns. Certainly less of an open question than something that was intentionally converted to non-firing like a war bond gun.

But at the end of the day they are mismatched surplus and some of them led very hard lives. At the bare minimum you need to check headspace. I've got one early '40s K.Kale in my safe right now that I don't consider safe to fire because the bolt swap lottery with my other similar-pattern rifles left that one holding a bolt that eats a field gauge.

 

[OnlyMil]

TFW you accidentally make a definitive statement on the K98k Forums.



You are right, yes, checking headspace on a 100+ year old rifle should go without saying. I was just trying to get across you're gonna have a lot easier of a time buying an Ottoman aid rifle supplied by Germany for near the same price, than go through the process of reactivated a deactivated rifle. The firing pin is probably clipped too. There MAY be issues, but the chances and scope of issues is reduced. Not to mention the history of it's deactivation is relevant to it's current state, as pointed out in earlier replies.

 

[mauser1908]

I personally wouldn't pay more than 600ish. Try to get him down a bit.

Also, I'd resist the temptation to restore it. The demilling is part of the history. These are collectible in their own right.

I agree, it would be a sin to unplug it.

 

[luftpirate]

I feel like most examples I have seen are salty just like this one. My guess is its because they were picked up and stockpiled for the express purpose of being bond rifles. They likely were put away wet and never saw cleaning before being piled in the bottom of a boat and shipped over. They also were not cared for during the 90+ years since, like a functional rifle most likely would.

 

[Cyrano4747]

I feel like most examples I have seen are salty just like this one. My guess is its because they were picked up and stockpiled for the express purpose of being bond rifles. They likely were put away wet and never saw cleaning before being piled in the bottom of a boat and shipped over. They also were not cared for during the 90+ years since, like a functional rifle most likely would.

You're likely right about the storage conditions at the time, but honestly I suspect the bigger culprit is them being non-functional wall hangers for a century. That's a quick trip to being neglected over a fireplace for god knows how long, or thrown in the basement, or relegated to the kid's bedroom as a toy in the 40s because it's not really a rifle any more and god knows how a 10 year old cares for it after he finishes crawling through wet grass playing soldier.

 

[PatickD]

Here’s my war bond with the bulged barrel. Obviously, from the rod that they inserted through the muzzle.

The rifle is entirely mismatched. Only the barrel and receiver match, plus the small parts on both of those.

Came with an incredibly nice stock that I sold on here. I wanted the rifle since it has a nice early war receiver that is in good condition.

Think I am going to remove the barrel. Then have the most badass paper weight lol.

 

[yellowkid]

Agree bond guns a cool bit of history and you’d never clear the barrel anyway. I heard the rods were coated with something before driving in with a hammer but could be folklore.

 

[Dlsims]

The last one I saw looked normal, no rust and was $400 about 2 years ago. Gun Collector magazine had a nice write up by John Wall in this issue. It is worth buying a backissue. The rifles have a lead plug or metal rods in the barrel and a cut firing pin. On some, the bolt face is ground flat or may have a welded firing pin hole. Too bad that sat in a basement or attic. Nice collectable piece of history. The one I saw had an original sling. For the condition and lack of sling, I'd say the price is high. How bad do you want one for the collection? It's not worth removing the rods and getting a new bolt for a shooter. You destroy a type specimen and end up with a dog. I'd just search out a Turk Gew 98 as a shooter. The issue of Gun Collector is Vol. 31 No. 6, 2009, pp. 27-29. It is nice to have an all matching Gew 98, a VFW GEW rifle, and a Turked Gew 98.


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Another war-bond Gew98

www.gunboards.com

War Bond 1917 DWM Gew98

www.gunboards.com

Miller's war bond is perfect.

1916 Mauser Oberndorf GEW98 - So Close to Matching, but...

www.gunboards.com

Great information. I have a 1904 Berlin Gew 98 Bond Rifle that is all matching numbers less the bolt and it has unit markings as well,123 10 90. Trying to decide what to do with it as a part of history it deserves to be seen by many.

 

[chrisftk]

Great information. Have a 1904 Berlin Gew 98 Bond Rifle that is all matching numbers less the bolt and it has unit markings as well,123 10 90. Trying to decide what to do with it as a part of history it deserves to be seen by many.

You can start by sharing pictures.

 

[Loewe]

While I can see both sides of this dilemma, I think there is little history lost clearing the chamber and muzzle plugs if you know what your doing, have the tools and skill to do it properly (safely); I chose this route on a CGH build (1905/15) but I had MauserBill doing it and he knows what he is doing...

Personally I think it adds to the value more than distracts "if" works! A couple French plugs is hardly a loss imo; no one admires the French as a culture (literature and history - excepting the last 100 years or so...) more than I, but demilling is a negative more than historical act worth saving.

** I do think the ask price is excessive though, - most especially in the condition.

 

[Dlsims]

Clearing the plugs may be possible however the orginal barrel would not be functional after the fact. From all I have read about the process of installing the plug it was done with a holding vice and press. There are marks on the muzzle end of the barrel that indicates this is indeed factually correct. If I could find a period correct, good 29" barrel perhaps that would be an option. While having one made is possible as well.

 

[Cyrano4747]

While I can see both sides of this dilemma, I think there is little history lost clearing the chamber and muzzle plugs if you know what your doing, have the tools and skill to do it properly (safely); I chose this route on a CGH build (1905/15) but I had MauserBill doing it and he knows what he is doing...

Personally I think it adds to the value more than distracts "if" works! A couple French plugs is hardly a loss imo; no one admires the French as a culture (literature and history - excepting the last 100 years or so...) more than I, but demilling is a negative more than historical act worth saving.

** I do think the ask price is excessive though, - most especially in the condition.

The flip side of this is that the plugs were put in specifically for use in American war bond drives, and regardless what your feelings are about demil practices in general, it makes it an artifact of a pretty unique and interesting moment in French-American relations. Kind of like how the RCs can either be seen as ruined Nazi rifles or cool Soviet third line rifles that were built out of captured war material.

Or, for that matter, all the guns in the big German museum collections with drilled barrels/chambers. The vast, vast, vast majority of those (especially the rare/prototype Mausers and other pre-WW1 military stuff) aren't a comment on modern German sensibilities re: firearms, but East German paranoia about the potential of an uprising arming itself from museums. I'd have to look at my notes but the law requiring it was passed in either '53 or '56, in the immediate aftermath of either the 17 June uprising in Berlin or the '56 Hungarian uprising.

In a perfect world yeah these things wouldn't have been done to the guns, but it's part of their history now. As much as it pains me to see pictures of some Paul Mauser prototype with the DDR hole drilled in it, if one fell in my lap I also wouldn't be wanting to re-weld it even if such a thing was possible to do perfectly and leaving no damage or other trace.

 

[Dlsims]

The flip side of this is that the plugs were put in specifically for use in American war bond drives, and regardless what your feelings are about demil practices in general, it makes it an artifact of a pretty unique and interesting moment in French-American relations. Kind of like how the RCs can either be seen as ruined Nazi rifles or cool Soviet third line rifles that were built out of captured war material.

Or, for that matter, all the guns in the big German museum collections with drilled barrels/chambers. The vast, vast, vast majority of those (especially the rare/prototype Mausers and other pre-WW1 military stuff) aren't a comment on modern German sensibilities re: firearms, but East German paranoia about the potential of an uprising arming itself from museums. I'd have to look at my notes but the law requiring it was passed in either '53 or '56, in the immediate aftermath of either the 17 June uprising in Berlin or the '56 Hungarian uprising.

In a perfect world yeah these things wouldn't have been done to the guns, but it's part of their history now. As much as it pains me to see pictures of some Paul Mauser prototype with the DDR hole drilled in it, if one fell in my lap I also wouldn't be wanting to re-weld it even if such a thing was possible to do perfectly and leaving no damage or other trace.

Cannot disagree and to date other than lots of elbow grease and preserving measures nothing has been done with it. Thinking perhaps the fort lee museum may like a loan unless I can find another collection that's in need. Need more information on them but this thread was a good start.