Bolt firing proof ID?
- Thread starter THunter
- Start date
Muncher 1953
Senior Member
looks like eagle over SP (black powder) with a lower case ‘m’ inserted below, or perhaps those are arches? a city mark (a bridge or cathedral?) I didn’t see the SP at all at 1st couple of looks at it.
I was thinking the same thing-- you'll see weird crap like this with Zeithan bolts and other early republican stuff..
Here's one of mine... the eagle is above the imperial crowned letter, but I've seen overstamps like this one too..
Fal Grunt
Senior Member
I'm going to offer a slightly different view. That looks like a lower case "m" to me. Sometimes seen on some DWM and Mauser parts. I have no idea what the significance is, and I haven't been able to find a good reason why it is there.
I think I have an example, if I get time this weekend I will post a picture of it.
I think I have an example, if I get time this weekend I will post a picture of it.
THunter
Well-known member
Generally you find two major variations to Republican era ord.spare bolts, and the latter bleeds into the National Socialist era, where a third variation is seen, First variation is made up from leftover Imperial ordnance spares, most commonly seen examples being WMO bolt bodies recovered from the Turk contract, these are common in Imperial condition, but unrelated to the question here... just the configuration is the same, namely a sole crowned acceptance w/o f/p.
The second variation and the first related to your situation is an Imperial era bolt body with an Republican era proof, these are rare. Amberg made are known, Chris displays his which is one I once owned. These are exceedingly rare even as bolt bodies but don't carry a corresponding value when sold as few realize what they are.... the later you go these are replaced by Simson bolt bodies, these are rare too and more recognized for what they are. The last are a mix where an Imperial bolt body is HZa acceptance applied, basically like Chris's Amberg bolt body with HZa Su acceptance
First in this case we can only guess as I can't even tell if this is a crowned "M" or whether it lacks this critical aspect, second am not really sure this is an "M" and if it is I can't say I can confirm a maker that used C/M bolt bodies late inthe war where it could be reutilized in the Republican era... by late 1917 G98 makers were being culled, and scanty trends exist for 1918 as few survive in Imperial condition and fewerstill have original bolts or fewer still shown, - maybe a Suhl maker?
Anyway this is the third attempt at a outline as I have the "Uncle Joe" version of internet service...
The second variation and the first related to your situation is an Imperial era bolt body with an Republican era proof, these are rare. Amberg made are known, Chris displays his which is one I once owned. These are exceedingly rare even as bolt bodies but don't carry a corresponding value when sold as few realize what they are.... the later you go these are replaced by Simson bolt bodies, these are rare too and more recognized for what they are. The last are a mix where an Imperial bolt body is HZa acceptance applied, basically like Chris's Amberg bolt body with HZa Su acceptance
First in this case we can only guess as I can't even tell if this is a crowned "M" or whether it lacks this critical aspect, second am not really sure this is an "M" and if it is I can't say I can confirm a maker that used C/M bolt bodies late inthe war where it could be reutilized in the Republican era... by late 1917 G98 makers were being culled, and scanty trends exist for 1918 as few survive in Imperial condition and fewerstill have original bolts or fewer still shown, - maybe a Suhl maker?
Anyway this is the third attempt at a outline as I have the "Uncle Joe" version of internet service...
Here might be a later version of the crown M. A eagle M on a Suhl Aug. Wolf drilling I have ??
ED
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biggymu
Well-known member
Yours is the commercial nitro proof adopted during the 3rd Reich period @39-45. It’s not relevant to the above post other than it is a firing proof.
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Fal Grunt
Senior Member
Pretty sweet hammer drilling for May of 1941!!
Cyrano4747
Well-known member
God yeah, I have pretty much zero interest in shotguns but the concept of the drilling is just neat to me and I'd love a pre-45 German one. Just one of those things that is big ticket enough that priority has always gone to the other focuses in my collection. They're neat as hell though.
It should be said, even obvious, that what is known or observed is probably a minuscule sample of what occurred, - variations ofthe outline above probably abound and we know this period was very chaotic, 1924-1931 especially (for the military chaotic - though for the government typically stable by comparison to pre-24 and post-31, the "appearance" of stability was due to stupid US loans financing German war debt and England favor to a stable Germany as a market), Germany was really in a mess through 1931 and increasingly obdurate, - needless to say increasingly prone to factionalism... nazis were the least of the problems most of the time, and the military was increasingly uncontrollable. with the death of Stresemann the last sane politician was gone. (and a sane German future died with him... the last sane commander of the Reichsheer - General Heye was fired-retired in 1930)
In short, my outline is based upon less than 10 known examples and more than half are bolt bodies, this over 20 years of trending so this should be considered when examining potential variations. Any Republican era ordnance spare bolt body, doubly rare a complete original bolt, is exceedingly rare (which doesn't necessarily correspond to value!!) Chris has the finest example I have seen and I paid a paltry sum for it in 2003, MauserBill at the time said he;d seen but two others, - I have seen none better and most are bolt bodies!
In short, my outline is based upon less than 10 known examples and more than half are bolt bodies, this over 20 years of trending so this should be considered when examining potential variations. Any Republican era ordnance spare bolt body, doubly rare a complete original bolt, is exceedingly rare (which doesn't necessarily correspond to value!!) Chris has the finest example I have seen and I paid a paltry sum for it in 2003, MauserBill at the time said he;d seen but two others, - I have seen none better and most are bolt bodies!
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I agree an Imperial bolt f/p during the Republic, should have a serial though... wild guess by acceptance is WMO but trends are inadequate to determine a maker of the bolt. But this C/? style is typical of of WMO RR trends late n the war. Bolt trends are too trivial to even guess, mere fragmentary compared to RR & BC work done, - matching bolts are relatively rare and rarer still the acceptance is shown.
Still, considering rarity this is a good thing in someone's parts drawer!
Glad it worked out!
Still, considering rarity this is a good thing in someone's parts drawer!
Glad it worked out!
