Blade Dimensions on Pre-war Horster small Sword H variation - for bayo book reprint.

[bruce98k]

Hey guys, looking for a blade width measurement for both Horster early commerical variations - Sword H and also HHS variations.
I am trying to get the section on Horster narrow pattern right.

When the bayonet book was printed I was going on data supplied by Scott Bugan regarding his example of the early BZ11 marked Horster bayonet.

Appreciate any follow up here and just want to get it correct, even if I have to rewrite that section.

Regarding the non-Horster narrow blade examples, I am all good there.

 

[pwcosol]

Bruce:
Took measurements of the following with blades...
BT = Blade Thickness taken at ricasso between x-guard and start of fuller.
BW = Blade Width taken at same location:

Horster Sword-H #30 (in white): BT = 5.8mm BW = 25mm*
Horster Sword-H #366 (blue): BT = 5.8mm BW = 25mm*
*Minimum Thickness taken with non-digital micrometer so possibly up to 5.85mm.

U/A NB Bz 11: BT = 5.5mm BW = 24mm
U/A NB SBR 123: BT = 5.5mm BW = 24mm

 

[Slash]

Bruce,
I know this wasn't asked for but the early Transitional S84/98 E.u.F. Hörster, RBD KS 186 (pictured in the first edition) is 25.15

Also have several unmarked (some Coppel) narrow patterns; but you said you were good there. Finally, have compiled blade width data for several hundred S84/98II, transitional, and IIIR period S84/98 if you are looking for any information on averages or trends. Just let me know .....

I removed previously posted information regarding Hörster Sword H examples as it was unvetted and/or erroneous. My mistakes and sorry for any confusion.

 

[AndyB]

I personally dont have any samples of the sword H version, but from E/49 proofed samples with Navy inventory marking, i believe they should be normal army items as PWCo mentioned also 25mm blade width and 5.8mm thickness minimal, the Railways pieces are normally lighter version with 24mm width.

 

[Slash]

I personally dont have any samples of the sword H version, but from E/49 proofed samples with Navy inventory marking, i believe they should be normal army items as PWCo mentioned also 25mm blade width and 5.8mm thickness minimal, the Railways pieces are normally lighter version with 24mm width.

In my opinion a "narrow pattern" is 24.00 mm or less. This is based on blade width measurements of several hundred S84/98 examples. My thoughts only ....

 

[bruce98k]

Fred my initial data was correct regarding the early Sword H variations being narrow blade config.

Super thanks and I agree with Lance on the general specification for a given example conforming to narrow blade or narrow pattern.

From my meager holdings:

BZ11 .944 (23.98mm) Follows 24mm rule
Blank .942 (23.92mm) Follows 24mm rule
Blank .865 (21.97mm) This is the only example I have noted for this blade width.

Other early or blank examples not narrow pattern:

Blank .982 (24.94mm)
Blank .981 (24.92mm) ASC scales, police issue

There is a clear differentiation between the two styles.

 

[AndyB]

I personally would ask for E/49 proofed samples and measure the width, as i dont believe army accepted pieces have a narrow and lightened blade, this would be not real by Army that would accept 2 variation of blades on S84/98. From the samples that i have good photos is clear the blade is full width 25mm. Is identical to S84/98nA.

 

[bruce98k]

Andy after checking with Lance, I agree with your assumption on the standard blade width for the Sword/H variant.
Will correct that page in the book.

 

[AndyB]

Thanks , i had already asked Scott B. for measuring and confirmation, but he will check it in next days.