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Bayonet for my K98K--Need help and have questions, please!

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slidhome66

Member
Hey guys! Hoping you could help with some questions, and provide some guidance! I'm the proud owner of a K98K RC (BYF 44) and would love to complement my rifle with an appropriate era bayonet. I began researching a few weeks ago and have learned quite a bit. I read that there were many companies that produced bayonets for the K98; most were knife/edged blade companies based in the Solingen region, and some were even produced by commercial companies whose primary products were non-edged/knife items. I also noticed that bayonets during the period 1933-1945 included those with wood handles as well as those with bakelite handles.

I decided that I want one with a wood handle. My timing is great, as I found an auction coming up soon that includes about 35 K98 bayonets; all have matching scabbards; there is a mix of wood and bakelite grip bayonets; and a mix of all different manufacturers. All the bayonets and scabbards are in pretty darn good condition.

My questions; are there certain bayonets that are more desirable/collectible than others? I have been keeping track of the current prices that have been bid (everything so far has been bid to $150 and under). However, today I was blown away when one of the bayonets has a current bid of over $300, and another has a current bid of over $500! I just about fell out of my chair! Interestingly, both of these bayonets I just mentioned are Bakelite-grip models made by E.U.F. Horster (with an SGX letter code). One does have a webbed frog in addition to the scabbard.

Can these current bid amounts be explained? I was hoping to score one of the wood bayonets for perhaps under $200. Am I unrealistic? Are there certain makers that are perhaps more common that others and therefore won't be coveted by collectors of bayonets? I understand there are those that are collectors of bayonets, however, I just want a nice one to complement my rifle.

Thanks so much for your expertise and input everyone!
 
You would be able to find a mismatched bayonet and scabbard for the under $200…. Matching bayonet and scabbards probably start at $200 and go up from there depending on condition of the pieces…ie, original bluing left, non sharpened and overall condition
 
My questions; are there certain bayonets that are more desirable/collectible than others?
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Yes, definitely. The larger the producer, the cheaper the price. If the producer is one of the smaller ones with a shorter production run, the more expensive. There are of course exception to the rules, like
Bakelite-grip models made by E.U.F. Horster (with an SGX letter code)
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These ones are very desired by collectors, since this maker switched from the maker code "asw" to "sgx" in 1944 (and was one of the few producers who made bayonets very late into the war!), paired together with a change from a blued to a phosphated finish not far apart in time. This combination makes it highly desired for serious collectors and will bring in a large amount of money for any seller if the condition is right. Not many were produced and within a relatively short timeframe; survivors with both these features are very scarce today.

I also noticed that bayonets during the period 1933-1945 included those with wood handles as well as those with bakelite handles.
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Yes, both versions were produced, but in "peaks" during those 12 years. Imagine yourself three Gaussian normal distribution graphs interlapping each other with the ends.
The first graph (from 1934 until ~1937/38) represents when wooden grips were used, then it changed to
the second graph (1937/38 until ~1942/43) represents when bakelite grips were predominatly used,
the third graph (1942/43 until 1945) represents when wood was started to be used again due to logistical problems after allied bombing.

Of course this isn't a definitive statement; there were instances when some makers got some shipments of bakelite grips in 1944 that weren't destroyed on a train ride, some still had bakelite in stock, etc.
In the end it boils down to what you prefer: Bakelite or Wood.
You can try to get a matching production year to your rifle if you want; but a "year mismatch" between a rifle and bayonet wan't uncommon in the army. In a soldiers' pay book, only the serial numbers of the rifle and bayonet were written down; not the makers, production block or production year.
IMO wood grips looks better together with the wood of the rifle instead of the pastic grips, but that's my personal preference.
 
Much appreciate the comments everyone...Sir Mortimer, you are spot on in regards to the E.U.F. Horster models with SGX and Bakelite grips. Both lots I referenced above, with bids of over $300 and over $500 respectively, are exactly what you described; E.U.F. Horster models with Bakeliite grips and the SGX stamp! I must say, the more I look at these bayonets, the more they grow on you, and I can see why people collect them! So many manufacturers, this will keep you busy for a while! And Mr. Mortimer, agree with you as well on the wood vs Bakelite grips---I felt that, with a wood stock, a wood-handled bayonet would simply look better, and more consistent! I hope I'm not blown out of the water with bid prices and I'm able to score one of these very cool bayonets!
 
Sir Mortimer said:
Yes, both versions were produced, but in "peaks" during those 12 years. Imagine yourself three Gaussian normal distribution graphs interlapping each other with the ends.
The first graph (from 1934 until ~1937/38) represents when wooden grips were used,
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Is there a table somewhere as to what codes a person should be looking for for this time frame?
 
There are various lists with each maker code during the three phases of codification, here's one example: https://worldbayonets.com/Misc__Pages/SG__84_98_III_Makers_Chart/SG_8498III_Bayonet_Makers_Table.pdf

The "Number code" with the "S/" prefix was used from 1934-37. This was still during the secret re-armament phase, codes were necessary to confuse any possible enemy intel services.
Between 1937-1940/41 the makers were stamped with their full name; no codes whatsoever. This was the "open re-armament phase" after the Treaty of Versailles was publicly broken and the early stages of the war was in favor of Germany, no bombardment of factories (yet).
The last phase was the "three-letter-codes" used between 1940/41-1945. The Allies started to gain traction and bomb more and more german factories, hence the need to code the military equipment makers again in order to deny the enemy any intel.
 
Sexton said:
Is there a table somewhere as to what codes a person should be looking for for this time frame?
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I have had links to the other graphs and pdf`s, but if you are like me (and several other collectors here), you want to see photos (bayo porn) of S84/98 III bayonets. The two previous links posted are the best I know of. The world of bayonets chart pdf posted by Sir Mortimer is one of my favorites as it has the single letter code for the S84/98 II bayonets.

Other forum members have large collections as well and have several posts of their collections. Member, Aws here https://www.k98kforum.com/threads/collection.31419/
 
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CanadianAR has several posts of his fine collections. Has put together sub-collections, and has a complete sub-collection of 44`s that is par excellence. Do a search in the bayonet forum to find them
pwcosol, has posts on several of his bayonets, his post on Behoerden (commercial) bayonets is a must read has great pics too. Here
www.k98kforum.com

BEHOERDEN & EXPORT S84/98 BAYONETS DURING THE THIRD REICH (REV.) II w/PHOTOS

Gents and Distinguished Colleagues: Just over a decade a go I wrote a couple chapters regarding certain aspects of collecting the S84/98. One chapter concerned the S84/98 as manufactured primarily during the Third Reich. I changed the format, updated the chapter on bayonets, and now present it...
www.k98kforum.com www.k98kforum.com
 
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Sorry for hijacking your post slidhome66. I hope that you are able to acquire an S84/98 III. Be warned, it can be habit forming.
 
Hey everyone, hope all is well with you...thought I would post some pix of the bayonet I scored at auction a few weeks back. It's a 1937 produced bayonet with matching serial number on the scabbard, manufactured by WKC. I am pretty happy with it, and it fits perfectly on my K98!
 

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grimlin13 said:
Sorry for hijacking your post slidhome66. I hope that you are able to acquire an S84/98 III. Be warned, it can be habit forming.
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No worries at all! And I can see how this can be addicting, as these bayonets are so cool, and there are so many producers, collecting them would be so fun, although pretty darn expensive!
 
Should be photografed next time on normal background, as there are not visible details, on that US flag. I assume its a Heer contract for WKC, interestingly very near numbers were reported with KM marking. This piece was reported by Don member of BCN some decades ago, there should be refurbishment stamp for Mg10 on pommel. Looks like the blade is sharpened in front part. On first picture wrong way added into scabbard, both serials on bayonet and scabbard should be over it on one side, same as WKC maker stamp on other side.
 
Thanks for the input...I replaced the photos with those on a better background...yeah, it appears a degree of sharpening occurred at some point. I was not able to determine this from the photos I saw at the auction, but there is nothing I can do about it now. I guess this is what can happen when you are bidding/purchasing something based on photos, and the absence of not being able to touch and handle the bayonet. What is the best way in determining if a bayonet has been sharpened? How sharp is a factory bayonet that has never been sharpened?
 
slidhome66 said:
What is the best way in determining if a bayonet has been sharpened?
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Look at the edge for any parallel/diagonal running scratch marks, ususally the size of your kitchen knife's "sharp area" up to a few millimeters high from the edge. That's an indication for a "field sharpening" (only done during WW1!). If the scratch marks run across the whole side up to the fuller (and in a wavy/zig-zag pattern), Bubba's been there with his angle grinder.
In Imperial Germany, the regulation stated that bayonets were to be left unsharpened during peacetime and sharpened during times of war; if the conflict was over, all bayonets must be made dull again. However, this order wasn't followed everywhere. I have some "field sharpened" and some dull WW1 bayonets in my collection.

During the Weimar Republic and the 3rd Reich, the sharpening wasn't needed (no war during Weimar era) and later strictly prohibited! Altering official state equipment as a soldier was a punishable offense.

slidhome66 said:
How sharp is a factory bayonet that has never been sharpened?
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The edge of an unsharpened, german WW2 bayonet is still ~1mm thick. So...not sharp at all. You can even run your finger across the edge on a "sharpened" WW1 bayonet without getting hurt at all. The grinding was done so rough, that it still is a dull piece of metal when viewing from a classical knife perspective.
 
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Luckily is only one side sharpened and not the complete blade, it looks like only on left side from half of lenght to tip. Unfortunally the pictures are not extra better as shadows there and the light was not enough probably by photo taking.
 
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