An Interesting Unit Marked 1933 Mauser Banner

[Slash]

Dug this out of the bunker to photograph as this rifle has always been a bit curious to me on a couple of levels. Being a Late War collector I am not that well versed on these early Mauser Banners. Appears to be rather typical in most respects for a 1933 dated Banner as far as the serial numbering, proof-marks, and high quality manufacturing and finish. The rifle is all matching with serial number 065080 which is full on the barrel and the receiver and partial in several other locations. I have tried to photograph everything as best as possible as far as the numbering and proofs. There are no markings whatsoever on the stock. Partial serial numbers on the bolt handle, gas shield, extractor, safety, cocking piece, bolt stop, trigger assembly and floor plate. The only marking on the rear sight is a stamped upper case script M or W? There is a 5 stamped to the left side front of the bayonet lug. The muzzle cover is stamped with the Mauser Banner to the front but is not numbered. The first thing I find interesting are the three Chinese (or Asian Kanji) characters stamped beneath the serial number on the trigger assembly. These are the only stampings of this nature found on the rifle. Perhaps making use of leftover or spare parts from the Chinese contract run? The second area of interest are the unit stamps to the butt plate. There are two sets of stampings that are different in nature and I believe were even applied at separate times. The upper marking consists of 77 over STW.ST. and is very well applied, deeply stamped and aligned. The second marking is below and is larger in size, consisting of 14 over SS.G. This marking although certainly period and original was not applied with quite the same level expertise. I do not know the meaning or have an identification for these unit marks. Nor do I know how this piece fits in with the production and contracts for these early Mausers. If anyone here has thoughts or opinions and could provide any information it would be most appreciated. Numerous photographs are attached. Thanks for looking ......

 

[bruce98k]

Banner

Very cool un-attributed Banner.

Will check tonite when I get home but appears and likely to be Police unit marks.

 

[Slash]

One additional photograph of the trigger housing assembly and floor plate stampings. Thoughts and opinions are encouraged!

 

[RyanE]

Pretty sure that Chinese is'徳國製', or 'Made in Germany' in English.

The 0 in front of the serial number looks to be added later. It was Japanese practice to add two or three zeroes to the front of the SN during rework, though this one does not show any evidence of rework. Just a thought.

 

[308nutt]

Very cool rifle. Did Banner mausers come with finger groove stocks?

 

[runner]

Very cool rifle. Did Banner mausers come with finger groove stocks?

Yes, finger groove stocks with side mounted slings were standard on the Banner Mausers. I agree with the earlier comment that the markings are probably police. This would also explain the lack of Postal, Railway, or Chda, markings that are often found on the stocks on these rifles. The serial number starting with a 0 is unusual. Its looks to be the same font as the rest of the sn, but I could well be wrong on that.
If the trigger guard has the hole for detachable sling swivel as found on Gew. 98s, I would suggest that it was a leftover part from a Chinese Standard Modell contract.
very neat and interesting rifle.

 

[bruce98k]

Banner

132 SS.G stamped on unattributed Banner SN 65058.

Given the limited data, it would appear that a small number of Banners in this serial range were sent to
an as yet unidentified group or organization.

SN 65058 has no DRP cartouche or external organizational stamp in the stock.
Also the receiver SN is prefixed with a 0 as well.

 

[mrfarb]

*Warning - this post is pure speculation on my part to encourage debate

This may be far out there, but for discussions sake (and a lively debate) what about these being purchased by a company? One close match I find using my quick GoogleFu is "Sudetenländische Treibstoffwerke", abbreviated STW. A cursory search seems to show this company was affiliated with the Reichswerke Herman Göring. The company was involved in the brown coal industry in the Sudetenland from the beginning of the war. With that, the ST could? be an abbreviation for Sudetenland?

This is of course a wild a$$ guess. Not sure a company would own firearms or even mark them like this. I've always assumed that unit markings starting with S are Police, but this doesn't seem to correlate with Police markings.

As far as the SS.G. and number, could be associated with the same company, but I couldn't find anything that might correlate with that. Maybe a search of Mauser's sales reports could confirm or deny any dealings with them? Like finding a needle in a haystack if it was the case, seems to be a small number.

 

[Bigdibbs88]

it seems plausible, companies certainly did it here in the US for a long time. the only comment I have is that, knowing German, St seems an unlikely abbreviation for Sudetenland. Just a gut feeling i guess....aka another WAG>

 

[WaPrüf2]

WAG: STW = Stw = Stabswache; ST = St.= Staffel (in the sense of detachment) cf. German Military Abbreviations, Special Series No. 12., 12 Apr 43, passim. Contraindication: One would think a Stabswache is a detachment.

Even wilder: SS. = Schiessstand = firing range; G. = placename?

 

[runner]

I have a book of uniforms of WWll Germany, and they show a picture of a uniformed and armed factory guard. I think these armed civilians even had a distinctive armband. And as Bigdibbs said, During the war, the US army supplied weapons, usually Springfield rifles and .38 revolvers to factories deemed essential to the war effort, so they could arm their security guards.

 

[Slash]

Thanks for all of the comments and opinions guys! Much appreciated. Interesting Bruce that you have another very similar example recorded with the same marking and close in serial numbering. Having the rifle in hand, all of the serial number digits appear to be the same size/style/font and applied at the same time. I could be wrong however.

runner - regarding your question on the trigger guard: Yes, the trigger guard has the machined hole for detachable sling swivel. Good catch! Pics attached of the trigger guard area.

 

[mrfarb]

That's the biggest problem with deciphering unit marks, many use abbreviations that wouldn't normally make sense. Not being a native German language speaker really hurts as well. By the way Bigdibbs I agree, ST would be an odd way to abbreviate Sudetenland.

 

[RyanE]

Is there any chance these are post-war markings of some kind? I have been doing some research and some articles on the C96, very popular in China, seemed to imply these country of origin markings were applied in China. So I am curious if anyone (meaning Bruce ) has any documentation from Mauser indicating whether the "Made in Germany" hanzi on the TG were applied by Mauser or the Chinese?

I have no idea how the rifle would have made it back to Germany, and such a scenario seems unlikely, but the question has been bothering me.

 

[runner]

I believe the Standard Modells that had Chinese characters on them, (most sold to China did not) were marked by Mauser. But I cannot find the reference right now. The condition of this rifle leads me to think it never went to China. I own several, FNs, K98ks, and Standard Modells that went to China and all show heavy use..

 

[WaPrüf2]

I had a minty Ethiopian that came back as a trophy from Germany with Chinese made in Germany stamp on the tg. Certainly never got to either China or Ethiopia...

 

[Slash]

A ten year old necro-post that I'm pushing to the top. Still looking for thoughts on this rifle and the unit markings. Many thanks in advance .....

 

[Mauserken]

Slash,
I don’t know if you’ve seen this before, but it may be of some help.(click on link)
Ken

German Police Unit Marks, 1920-1937

 

[bruce98k]

Good idea to resurrect this post. To date, no one has identified what the unit markings mean.
We know that the Chinese characters basically read "Made in Germany" (diverted Standard-Modell trigger housing).

 

[AndyB]

Interesting is this marking certainly , marking is hard to decipherable, as various combination could be real, same as the both marking could be in separate period marked with not link together. Export rifles undelivered could be used by various Behoerden organisations or guarding units.
STW. could be Stabswache with St. a location to sample Stettin? but there are many other possibilities. A similar Banner unit marking should be examined.
"132 SS.G stamped on unattributed Banner SN 65058." with this is clear the 14 is a inventory number of a gun not a unit number.