Allegedly an m71 Bayonet that has been.....modified?

Teku

Teku

Active member
I got this from an auction thinking it was cool and would go nicely on the wall with my 1871

but looking at it in person as opposed to the 2 photos of it, I am not so sure if this is a bayonet that was converted, was always like this as a dress piece or if its a knockoff.
*The images on my phone are a bit to big, so here's an imgur link instead*

https://imgur.com/a/xek6cIw
 
I can't tell you exactly what it is, other than it is NOT a 1871 bayonet. I can tell you it is VERY cool, and I look forward to finding out what it is.

I am guessing it is a dress/parade knife, or some people call it a "short sword".

If you can, get a clearer picture of the markings, looks like Field Artillery Regiment 62?
 
I'm talking based on some stuff I read years ago so take this as more rough guidance than anything specific, but I'm pretty sure items like this were given out as retirement gifts and in memory of big occasions. For most people usually retirement, but you'll see for example naval items where it's the big cruise to east Asia or whatever.

The text appears to read "Ostfries. Feld Art. Regt. No. 62." Lucky they've got a wikipedia page: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostfriesisches_Feldartillerie-Regiment_Nr._62

edit: to be clear, usually you find this stuff with an older item (sometimes the soldier's actual kit) that's engraved and presented. So not commissioning a fancy knife, but grabbing an issue bayo and sending it to a local engraver.
 
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Yeah, you're right, looking at the IMA listing there's a clear spot for the barrel and hardware to clip into a lug. Maybe there was a side arm issued in the same pattern for those who didn't get a rifle?

Someone get Chris in here, he probably knows and has three of them to show us.
 
Ok, one more guess. Looking around for NCO swords I'm seeing stuff like this m1864 Prussian NCO's Faschinenmesser:

Looks about right, no provision for a gun barrel. There are a bunch of variations I'm seeing with different grip textures etc, but this one looks closest to the OP's. Going back to my thought about a retirement gift, an NCO's side arm might make sense if a career SNCO was mustering out.

I'm not going to lean too hard on this, there seems to be a lot of variation in these and for all I know there's a different model a few years earlier or later, but the general thrust (pun not intended) looks about right. Scabbard isn't a perfect match etc so take with a grain of salt, but I'd start looking through NCO blades to find what it really is. Also it would make sense for an NCO blade to have a very similar pattern to the issue bayo.

german-prussian-model-1864-infantry-nco-short-sword.jpg
 
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Cyrano4747 said:
Someone get Chris in here, he probably knows and has three of them to show us.
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You guys more or less have the right of it. It's an sidearm/tool. They are often called a "Faschinenmesser" as a general name. (From cutting fascines -aka bundles of brushwood) I don't know that that's a correct general term. Many of the German states had some variation of them. The one the OP shared happens to be Prussian. They have a long history of use. They had more or less fallen out of favor by World War I though.

Sometimes they were made new, but quite often they were made by salvaging old bayonets and reworking them. Artillerymen were often issued these, but others received them as well (NCOs, etc)

To ensure that I live up to expectations I do have some of these. Since a Prussian one was already posted I will share a Bavarian, Württembergische and Saxon example.

IMG_20250417_235244251 (2).jpgIMG_20250417_235259800 (1).jpg

The Bavarian model is actually a recycled Werder blade with a new brass grip and lion shaped pommel added. These are often found unit marked. This particular one is an artillery munitions column and both the scabbard and blade match.

The Württembergische ones have a very distinctive steel grip. This particular one is marked to an infantry regiment.

The Saxon one is similar to the Württembergische one, but with a brass grip.
 
chrisftk said:
You guys more or less have the right of it. It's an sidearm/tool. They are often called a "Faschinenmesser" as a general name. (From cutting fascines -aka bundles of brushwood) I don't know that that's a correct general term. Many of the German states had some variation of them. The one the OP shared happens to be Prussian. They have a long history of use. They had more or less fallen out of favor by World War I though.

Sometimes they were made new, but quite often they were made by salvaging old bayonets and reworking them. Artillerymen were often issued these, but others received them as well (NCOs, etc)

To ensure that I live up to expectations I do have some of these. Since a Prussian one was already posted I will share a Bavarian, Württembergische and Saxon example.

View attachment 438528View attachment 438529

The Bavarian model is actually a recycled Werder blade with a new brass grip and lion shaped pommel added. These are often found unit marked. This particular one is an artillery munitions column and both the scabbard and blade match.

The Württembergische ones have a very distinctive steel grip. This particular one is marked to an infantry regiment.

The Saxon one is similar to the Württembergische one, but with a brass grip.
Click to expand...

Very cool! Always neat to get a lesson so I know what these are when I encounter them later on.

I like how you brought in 3 cause someone commented about it XD

Aside from the unit marking, are there other things I can look for to identify who this was issued (or who owned) it? Or is that going to be the end of the line on that front and I should just look for a dress uniform and belt to hook it on?
 
I usually see these offered as "walking out" bayonets, which I assume is a literal translation from a German term. The ones I see are usually decorated with etching or engraving on the blades and, like yours, do not usually have the spring catch or muzzle ring, although sometimes they do, and they frequently have thinner blades--my impression is that they are for dress, not actual use. I haven't seen many with unit markings and am under the impression that they were private purchase, not unit-issued.

My limited experience with faschinenmesseren is that they are usually heavier than bayonets (and not made to attach to a rifle) and often, but not always, have sawtooth backs, with the idea that they would be used to chop or saw branches for making fascines--bundles of sticks for field fortifications, filling holes, etc.
 
BP Dave said:
My limited experience with faschinenmesseren is that they are usually heavier than bayonets (and not made to attach to a rifle) and often, but not always, have sawtooth backs, with the idea that they would be used to chop or saw branches for making fascines--bundles of sticks for field fortifications, filling holes, etc.
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I have never held the 1871 pattern bayonet, so I can't attest to anything there. It is heavily engraved with horses pulling a cannon, which I assume is a reference to the unit this is affiliated with (see all the above links to the regiment). No provisions seem to be in place for a sawback since the back is also engraved with decorative leaf pattern that runs through the mid section where all the other engraving is done.
 
This is a lightened version of Art.Faschinenmesser with blade used even on dress bayonets of SG1871, only it was different way etched and marked, thats all.
 
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