Third Party Press

Ajack 4x90

H

Herd Bull

Member
100% New guy to this forum, but long time contributor to other forums that are mostly big game hunting related.
Thanks for allowing me in the door.

Not going to pull the punch here.....
I joined up, because this group looks to be most informed, on an item that has recently came into my possession.
However, I am hesitant to post this, as I am worried that my intent will become misconstrued

Along with my hunting addiction, I am also terribly afflicted by the interesting firearm bug.
That passion has brought into my hands an older custom rifle, the purchase of which was entirely based on the very interesting chambering of the arm.
Now that I have this pretty cool gun in my hands, I discover that the scope mounted upon it, is most unexpected.
I have not cleaned or disassembled anything yet. What you see is how I received it.

Marked
Ajack 4x90 49643+
Ajack 4x90.jpg
The sun shade is intact, and there are some vintage clear lens covers on each end of the glass (I am not sure that the covers are an original accessory).

I believe the reticle is what Ajack referred to as "Graticule No. 1", and it moves properly with the elevation adjuster.
I struggled to get my phone to cooperate, but this is what I was able to capture of the reticle.
PXL_20231129_161514475.MP (1).jpg

My basic research seems to indicate that this is a German military sniper scope from +/- 1940 era
The finish seems to be in excellent condition and the glass is almost pristine (due I am sure to the lens convers).

Can the good folks here verify the I really have "what I think I have"?
I would love to know more about it.

I have spent considerable time thinking about this, and I am now in a true quandary:
I love it. My mind races at the stories that this piece could tell.
BUT>>>>This item is just not my "thing".
As a Winchester Model 70 collector, German military does not fit in with the other things that I enjoy owning.
If it truly is what it seems to be at first blush, I want this piece to be in the hands of someone with genuine appreciate for it.
A part of someone's collection, perhaps mounted onto the proper period rifle, a treasure, a part of a bigger story being told.
Not just sitting in my safe collecting dust.

With a straight face, I will look you in the eye and let you know, that I am not looking to a huge profit from this scope.
In the same sentence, I don't think that it is wrong to think that this can be accomplished at a price that is fair to me.
I TRULY want it to go to someone whom I am confident will take great pride in it's ownership.
Someone who is not simply looking to "flip it" for $$, nor do I want to put it on an auction site.

I seem to buy a lot of gun and gun related items on the web, but I have never sold anything through it.
I am not sure if classified ads are frowned upon this forum. If so I am completely sorry.
This is not entirely meant to be an advertisement for sale.
The core of this post, is to only humbly ask how I should go about re-homing this to good hands.

Thanks for your consideration and input.
 
Welcome to the forum. Can you post pictures of both sides of the elevation turret i.e. serial number etc and any other engravings on the body of the scope to better identify it. The covers are interesting.
 
That is a gorgeous scope. The serial on the left hand side will tell more of when it was produced.

This is the place for dedicated collectors in terms of german optics and related so your instinct served well.
If you do plan to part the scope out for sale, I would definitely be interested.
 
Thank you biggymu and Thorne

Here are the turret side views. I apologize for the hasty photography.
PXL_20231129_150720670 (1).jpg
PXL_20231129_150647466 (1).jpg
PXL_20231129_150705293.jpg

I read a casual mention somewhere that the + to the right of the serial # is significant?
Something about "cold weather". Can someone explain?

I do not see any other markings. Nothing visible on the underside.
Would there be anything being covered by the rings?
One person advised me to remove and look under the turret cap, but I am quite hesitant to do that.
 
The + marking was a indicator that it was treated grease for cold weather.
Someone with the serial ranges in better memory can correct me, but I believe it probably came from a 1944 HT sniper.

Since its low fit to the rifle, it might be hard to see if there is any number stamps on the rear of the tube where the rear ocular bell begins.

Edit: also you don't need to remove the turret cap, you won't find any info under it. It's just for zeroing the BDC scale or disassembly of the scope.
 
Last edited:
Thorne I just combed over the tube body pretty carefully and i just do not see any other markings. Like you said they might be there and just hard to see with the scope mounted on the rifle.

I do find 2 screw heads on the underside of the tube. Retainers for the inner mechanism(s)?
 
Thank you absolut for confirming.

Definitely an interesting setup being installed on a 1903 rifle, probably bringback by a vet and setup as such. Any idea or info that came with the rifle purchase?
 
As mentioned I bought this rig on a whim, (A recurring symptom of the interesting firearm bug)
based entirely on the chambering 6.5 Gibbs

I thought "I don't know anyone who owns one of those. I want to be the only kid on the block with one"

Answered the ad, and had a friend pick it up.
Sadly all back history on the rifle has been lost to the sands of time.
 
IMO the 49000 range serial number would date manufacture to late 1943 (probably) to NLT early 1944 latest. This number range can be found on k block low turrets to the very first HT made in 1943 and beginning of 44, assuming you can find one with factory matching number optic scope/mount assembly which is no small order!
 
Philip said:
IMO the 49000 range serial number would date manufacture to late 1943 (probably) to NLT early 1944 latest. This number range can be found on k block low turrets to the very first HT made in 1943 and beginning of 44, assuming you can find one with factory matching number optic scope/mount assembly which is no small order!
Click to expand...
I have pictures of a byf43 low turret with matching Ajack scope serial number 43939

And a byf44 i block with matching Ajack scope serial number 48227.

So I agree with Georg that this is a late High turret scope.
 
This is incredible information folks! Thank you
I would have assumed that data like this would have been lost to the sands of time.
Very cool !

Absolut...that is a beautiful firearm. Love the great pictures. Thank you for sharing that !

I now understand the high/low turret determination, however, help a naïve novice out on some of your terminology:
K block ?
byf44 i block
 
"k block" or "i block" refers to the letter block a particular rifle was made. Generally (of course there are exemptions with certain manufacturers and guns) German serialization was the way that every year they started again with serial number 1 and up until 9999 (and depending on the year with later years even up to 99.999 with some manufacturers). The following serial to 9999(9) was then 1a, so the addition of the first letter of the alphabet. When they were again at 9999(9)a they then continued with 1b.

So if one speaks on "k" block this basically means a rifle with a k suffix to the serial number, so basically 12th block (1 block without, then a-block, b-block, c-block, d-block, e-block, f-block, g-block, h-block, i-block, j-block, k-block). Due to serial number observation it is also known what were the highest serial numbers of certain manufacturers for certain years, therefore one can even conclude whether this was a "late 44" or possibly "middle 44".

The compliments regarding that rifle are better directed at the owner. I only gave the link to the thread with his marvellous piece.

PS: there is a trader on this forum. If you are going to sell the scope, make sure to list it there. Maybe someone from this forum can use it!
 
mdarnell19 said:
I have pictures of a byf43 low turret with matching Ajack scope serial number 43939

And a byf44 i block with matching Ajack scope serial number 48227.

So I agree with Georg that this is a late High turret scope.
Click to expand...
Sorry to be a contrarian on this but a 49,000 range Ajack scope was being used by November and certainly December 1943 and even quite possibly as early as October 1943 in the i block LT 1943 range. We have ample evidence (if a couple of matched rifles and scopes can be called ample) that 50,000 range AJacks were appearing near the beginning of 1944 production. Maybe more importantly the near 47,000 range AJacks are known on a matching rifle and scope in the 1943 LT h block. What I do not think that we know is the monthly average of Ajack usage from mid 1943-1945 or of course even monthly Mauser and Sauer turret output during that timeframe, understanding of course Sauer did not build them that entire time. The rifle posted with the 49,000 range scope matched to be rifle could be explained by several possibilities most legit and one not. I also would never say that scopes were mounted on rifles in exact serial number sequence and actually I would say it’s a real safe bet that they were not always and sometimes gaps of several hundred or more could be the case.
 
Not sure where you get your numbers from, but if Ajack from 43.xxx to 50.xxx serial range are to be found with Low Turret, this leaves basically zero to little Ajack for the High Turret, since phosphate Ajack for the LSR scopes which are known to start around the 51.xxx serial range - as well as the 51.xxx scopes already being on 1945 dating HT rifles. This then would lead to 7000 Ajack on Low Turret for 1943 only versus maybe around 1000 Ajack on High Turret for 1944. This for Low Turret sniper rifle production being much less than High Turret. Side note, you could leave out Sauer on Ajack since they never used those.

For what its worth, Robert Spielauer has Ajack 44.678 on High Turret mount in his book, as well as Ajack 47.386 which is serialized to an i-block High Turret rifle. As a result we have two scopes with closeby serial number (47.386 and 48.227) which are both in the i-Block of 1944.

Would you mind showing the 1943 LT h block with the matching numbers 47.xxx Ajack that you mention?
 
Absolut said:
Not sure where you get your numbers from, but if Ajack from 43.xxx to 50.xxx serial range are to be found with Low Turret, this leaves basically zero to little Ajack for the High Turret, since phosphate Ajack for the LSR scopes which are known to start around the 51.xxx serial range - as well as the 51.xxx scopes already being on 1945 dating HT rifles. This then would lead to 7000 Ajack on Low Turret for 1943 only versus maybe around 1000 Ajack on High Turret for 1944. This for Low Turret sniper rifle production being much less than High Turret. Side note, you could leave out Sauer on Ajack since they never used those.

For what its worth, Robert Spielauer has Ajack 44.678 on High Turret mount in his book, as well as Ajack 47.386 which is serialized to an i-block High Turret rifle. As a result we have two scopes with closeby serial number (47.386 and 48.227) which are both in the i-Block of 1944.

Would you mind showing the 1943 LT h block with the matching numbers 47.xxx Ajack that you mention?
Click to expand...
I can email you some photos. I also looked at a matching basically out of the woodwork i block 1943 LT ( I think someone on this forum now owns it) that has Ajack scope in the 46,600 range….and as I said factory matched to rifle. Now I may have spoke too quickly when I said 48,000 or 49,000 serialed scopes were definitely used by November or December 1943. I need to do more research in my files. I do know 50,000 range was in use fairly early in 1944, let’s say spring. I also know for a fact that mid and high 46,000 range were being fitted to rifles in September and October 1943. I certainly make mistakes but I try to correct them. I believe that AJack was probably producing around 400 or so units per month but no idea if this was a consistent monthly figure or up and down. I believe most of us agree that the produced about 12,000 scoped between about 1942 and the end of the war or at least the end of 1944 so maybe 4000 per year average, but that yearly figure probably was not flat with maybe 5000 plus (6000?) delivered in 1944? Don’t know just my stubby pencil based on few matching scope examples here and there
 
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