A very diffiCULt decision... 44 CUL SN : 0956a

[luftpirate]

Had to borrow a pun from the late Kim Henvig, a notorious joker if you knew him.

I've only had 4 44 CULs come through my collection in 20 years. I sold my second and third, only to be graced by this one which I took a gamble on not being 100% sure if it was matching. This last year I feel I've been fortunate to come by some cool stuff, which undoubtedly is because I've spent more time looking, and am no longer scraping by to pay more important bills.

That leads us to this example, a Matching 44 CUL, SN : 0956a. I'm not 100% sure what it is about them, but they are one of my Late War favorites. Perhaps its because they are somewhat rare, and also they exhibit the least of the Late War "Style" compared to other makers. The scabbard seams to get rougher towards C block. Look how well finished the blade and pommel are compared to its counterparts, and the unmistakable dull blued finished.

This particular example seems to be in rather good condition, but came with this nasty slathered on black paint on the scabbard. After carefully removing the scabbard from the frog, it is evident it was applied before being placed in the frog. And a surprise! A light fixture switch plate envelope tucked behind the scabbard inside the frog. My excitement quickly peaked, could it be a note from the past? No, just an empty envelope, but perhaps it tells us something about when the scabbard could have been painted and placed in the frog. Almost certainly a post war happening, but why go through all that bother to paint an otherwise good scabbard. We've seen it on many, time and time again, most recently a 45 CRS which came out of the woodwork. Perhaps the envelope was folded up to use as a sort of shim, to keep the scabbard from moving so much in the frog?

So what would you do, leave it as is or remove that nasty paint? I can safely remove the paint, but how would you do it if you were to?

Does a real jewel lay beneath that thick black cocoon?

























I found the 1938 Paulding Catalog and this light cover is listed. Appears it may have been place there fairly recently after the war.

 

[grimlin13]

I have a S/155K that has black paint gooped all over the matching scabbard. And, when I say gooped, it looks like whoever painted it, used their hand to apply it. Then some other owner scrapped just enough paint off to see the makers code and the serial numbers. I would love to remove that fugly black crap, but I can see that it is bare metal under the paint, and I hate shiny bare metal scabbards worse than gooped on black paint.
It`s possible that on your scabbard, it may have some of blue left under the paint. If you have an old wheat penny (I use a 1942 dated one) you can safely scrape the paint off in a few spots to see if any blue is left under the paint. Go easy though, if the paint is gone there could be patina, which is better than shiny metal on an S84/98 III. You could use extra-fine brass/bronze wool and gun oil to remove the paint. Labor intensive and still have to go easy. Sometimes pouring or dipping into boiling water will cause paint to bubble up or lift off of metal. Depends on the type of paint and condition of metal (like being dirty) when it was painted.
Of course, whatever you do, it is done once you do it. Sometimes, I wish I had just left well enough alone when trying to make something better and I am not just talking about bayonets. Goes for just about anything.

 

[AndyB]

Not extra well pictures here, should be done on day light wout flash on non glossy background, but i assume the piece is nice, correct with intact blueing on scabbard which is still visible on hook and protruding part where is the black paint damaged, i would proof aceton to remove it on one small area. Scratching could cause damage on weakly blue as it was done in 1944. I assume the frog is a LW type one.

 

[Slash]

Kim is definitely missed. Nice and interesting set. The old envelope is very unique. Wonder if there was a note within at some point? I an a big fan of the late E. Pack as well. And they have always been hard to find; nice ones at least. I would leave paint as is but that is just me. Much like @grimlin13, have never been happy with the outcome of attempted paint removal.

The frog marking is TIWO > HEIDELBERG > 1942 for the firm of Timmermann & Wollet Kofferfabrik, Heidelberg.

 

[pwcosol]

Have seen a number of black painted S84/98 T3 scabbards. The reasons they were painted are many... protection for a well worn blued finish, a damaged/repaired scabbard when bluing was not available, Post-WW2 reissue by various nations is a big contributor, Hollywood prop houses did this as well, etc. I think Slash's reply to Gremlin13 is spot on "...have never been happy with the outcome of attempted paint removal". Since that paint was applied for (theoretically) some good reason, not surprising what lies beneath is, more often than not, less than hoped for...

 

[CanadianAR]

Good find. They are damn difficult to find that’s for sure.

 

[AndyB]

As mentioned some people dont touch anything and will retain the old finish even postwar done, other would remove the paint here, personally in this case i would remove the paint as is not well done, on some protruding part are visible that the blueing under is ok. Evidently by painting someone removed the mouth piece. But the choice is on owner. I removed in my collector life some of strange paint and rusts the result was in majority cases good. even used and worried finish was better as the postwar one.

 

[luftpirate]

Not extra well pictures here, should be done on day light wout flash on non glossy background, but i assume the piece is nice, correct with intact blueing on scabbard which is still visible on hook and protruding part where is the black paint damaged, i would proof aceton to remove it on one small area. Scratching could cause damage on weakly blue as it was done in 1944. I assume the frog is a LW type one.

Andy you always want better pictures but it has been raining for two weeks straight here Yeah I think acetone would be the route I go with a microfiber towel and nylon brush. Then immediately rub it down with Ballistol to prevent any flash rust.

As mentioned some people dont touch anything and will retain the old finish even postwar done, other would remove the paint here, personally in this case i would remove the paint as is not well done, on some protruding part are visible that the blueing under is ok. Evidently by painting someone removed the mouth piece. But the choice is on owner. I removed in my collector life some of strange paint and rusts the result was in majority cases good. even used and worried finish was better as the postwar one.

That is a good observation, I think you are correct. The areas on the frog stud where the paint is worn off shows some original finish as well as a few other areas. My worry would be someone scrubbed the hell out of it with steel wool before painting, but given the quality of the paint job I doubt there was any prep work. There are a few areas on the pommel and flash guard that look like someone lightly hit them with steel wool at some point, and like you said someone has been fussing with the spring holder near the thoat.

 

[moconfed]

I've seen the boiling water method used on ornate door hardware. Does no damage to object. Would have to immediately oil, though.

 

[KroniK]

I can confirm the boiling water trick.
I used it myself to remove the paint from a rifle grenade launcher. Did the trick, I would do it again in the future.
But as mentioned above, in my case it was to cover up a bunch of scratches. You can always repaint it I guess.

One tip: don't use a pot from the kitchen to boil it in