8mm Ammo

alunsy21 said:
I bought some of this a few weeks ago when centerfire systems had it on sale. $240 delivered for 600 rounds. I’m going to put the best condition sleeve back to collect and shoot the other. The rounds that I did check had loose powder inside. I can’t remember if it’s 42 or 43 production
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If it's 42 dated then it should be ok (with proper storage of course) also please if ya got any pull in production decisions make some 196 grain boat tail bullets or that match ammo. Glad to see someone from Hornady is in the house!
Edit: whoops wrong guy 🤣
 
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Muncher 1953 said:
I guess I’ve been lucky so far, no non-fires or hang fires in my 1940 made German steel cased ammo, and it is of various ‘P#s’ as well. Sadly no way to tell of storage conditions, and that may be key to results.
I noticed something in the post#1 photo, the ammo pictured is marked ‘fur MG’. A fellow in my collector’s club tells folks not to shoot ‘fur MG’ ammo because “it’ll blow your rifle up” , I’m pretty sure this is BS, but he keeps on with it.
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I read somewhere that when ammo was marked für Mg it was because the ammo was consistent enough to be used in MG's. Rifles like the K98K just got issued pretty much what ever was approved.
 
Firebug90 said:
I am an engineer at Hornady and I shot some 1940 steel cased MG ammo one day over our doppler radar head to get drag data on the original 7.92 German bullet (curiosity mostly. FWIW it's about a .545 G1 BC). Of the 10 rounds I fired there were 2 audible hangfires and about 400fps variation in muzzle velocity (wet/compromised powder most likely). 85 years is a long time to properly store ammo and war-time is when all the corners to make proper ammunition get cut in trade for making more faster. IMO not worth the risk to shoot the stuff regularly.
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Other thing to mention is the primers. In my east German 8mm thread one guy in Germany hunts down German 8mm war time made cases and punches out the old primer and powder. Then puts in new Berdan primers, N150 powder and a variety of bullets, Sierra 200 grain match King bullets if he can find them. He said lately he's been using PPU bullets and possibly Hornady as well. I'll link my thread.
If ya want any for testing in your guys lab I can send a test sample size of 50 loaded East German made 8mm if you like, I also expect to have two 1 lbs bottles full of the gun powder they used so if you want a bottle or half bottle for testing (your choice) I could send you some if you'd like.
 
In 1940 the 178 grain S.m.E. (steel core to save lead) was introduced as the preferred rifle round. In 1942 the production of the 178 grain S.m.E. exceeded the production of 198 grain s.S. Patrone. In very early 1943 an order was released that s.S. Patrone was to be reserved for machine guns and aircraft use. Only 178 grain S.m.E. was to be used to infantry for rifles. Snipers were to continue being issued special high quality s.S. Patrone.
The load pressure and stats didn't change for MG use, just that to conserve lead, the 198 grain s.S. Patrone was not to be issued to the Infantry for rifles anymore.
That ammo pictured is dated 1942, so though the order had not come out to reserve s.S. Patrone for MG use, the S.m.E. was already the preferred Infantry ammo.
 
Guys buy the stuff to keep a full box for display and sell the individual boxes at gun shows to those that collect or want just a few individual boxes for display. If firing I'd pull a sample and see the amount or lack of rust, check for damp or clumped powder, odd smelling powder and see if the primers go off on the empty case. Some are making dummy rounds out of the cartridges and selling these at $3 each also for display at local gun shows. Not bad for an investment of about 50 cents per round. They sell the small boxes at $15 or 20 each. Only the best crisp boxes are sold. Like old Turk stuff, I would not shoot this old stuff in a $1000 or more rifle, maybe a $400 yugo mauser or a $200 Turk dog. Brass yes, steel no, but that is just me. People really like the German headstamped dummy rounds:censored: It is somewhat difficult to find a really crisp sleeve intact and at the show it's generally around $145-165 a sleeve. Back a year or so ago J&G, Centerfire, Castle Arms had a variety of small boxes at around $10 with shipping and then the sleeves. Lots of the old German stuff got dumped on the US market. Most of us got our sample boxes, few shoot it because most rifles are so expensive now. I'd never put that stuff in a bring back:eek:
 
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DtheD said:
In 1940 the 178 grain S.m.E. (steel core to save lead) was introduced as the preferred rifle round. In 1942 the production of the 178 grain S.m.E. exceeded the production of 198 grain s.S. Patrone. In very early 1943 an order was released that s.S. Patrone was to be reserved for machine guns and aircraft use. Only 178 grain S.m.E. was to be used to infantry for rifles. Snipers were to continue being issued special high quality s.S. Patrone.
The load pressure and stats didn't change for MG use, just that to conserve lead, the 198 grain s.S. Patrone was not to be issued to the Infantry for rifles anymore.
That ammo pictured is dated 1942, so though the order had not come out to reserve s.S. Patrone for MG use, the S.m.E. was already the preferred Infantry ammo.
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is that the reason that 15 rd boxes of 1940 loaded steel cased sS ammo was marked “fur MG” in red on the labels? I’ve read various theories about the marking, including that it was loaded differently (hotter), that it was to encourage acceptance by MG crews of steel cased & lacquered ammo over brass cased for their MGs, or simply meant ‘no clips’.

None of which really make sense, given that it was by design that the ammo was as universal as possible for transport & supply reasons. (trains & horses) It is mind boggling that in 1941 OKW had 9.5 BILLION rounds of 8mm in inventory, though they used 700-900 million per month at times (German 7.9mm Military Ammunition - Kent)

EDIT: I’ve found some more web stuff on this ? including this from gb


‘amafrank’ has some insights
 
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alunsy21 said:
I bought some of this a few weeks ago when centerfire systems had it on sale. $240 delivered for 600 rounds. I’m going to put the best condition sleeve back to collect and shoot the other. The rounds that I did check had loose powder inside. I can’t remember if it’s 42 or 43 production
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So did you shoot some of the ammo? Anything to report?
 
I have around 2000 rounds of 1940 dated P25 ammo.It was sure fire when I bought over 20 years ago but primers are now dead.I pulled some down to reload in new cases and primers.The powder looked like new production and the interior of the cases [steel] looked like new production.It took a Pile Driver bullet pulller to break down the ammo.200 lbs bullet pull.
 
Ken T said:
I have around 2000 rounds of 1940 dated P25 ammo.It was sure fire when I bought over 20 years ago but primers are now dead.I pulled some down to reload in new cases and primers.The powder looked like new production and the interior of the cases [steel] looked like new production.It took a Pile Driver bullet pulller to break down the ammo.200 lbs bullet pull.
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I also have a bunch of 1940 steel cased, some P25. “so far”, they’ve all gone ‘bang’. I bought a hornady ‘levr lok’ puller & 8mm bushing, much easier & less dramatic than kinetic type if you aleady have a press. I was able to adjust it so the bullets were unmarked. If the crimp is really heavy, you can push them in a tiny bit w/seating die, then pull more easily.
 
Muncher 1953 said:
I also have a bunch of 1940 steel cased, some P25. “so far”, they’ve all gone ‘bang’. I bought a hornady ‘levr lok’ puller & 8mm bushing, much easier & less dramatic than kinetic type if you aleady have a press. I was able to adjust it so the bullets were unmarked. If the crimp is really heavy, you can push them in a tiny bit w/seating die, then pull more easily.
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I'll have to give that method a try, I figured it was the same exactly as the RCBS one and it was a nightmare to use unless the bullets were not overly crimped/loose case necks.
 
Jdt said:
I'll have to give that method a try, I figured it was the same exactly as the RCBS one and it was a nightmare to use unless the bullets were not overly crimped/loose case necks.
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I’d done some online fishing for info, saw several comments about using the bullet seating die to just barely set the bullet IN a hair, then they’ll pull out more easily, using the collet type puller in the press. I use an old Lee single station press for single operations like this. seems to work even when the bullets have been sealed with primer seal. I have a few rusting rounds with tracer bullets, didn’t feel much like using the kinetic to pull them down!
 
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Muncher 1953 said:
I’d done some online fishing for info, saw several comments about using the bullet seating die to just barely set the bullet IN a hair, then they’ll pull out more easily, using the collet type puller in the press. I use an old Lee single station press for single operations like this. seems to work even when the bullets have been sealed with primer seal. I have a few rusting rounds with tracer bullets, didn’t feel much like using the kinetic to pull them down!
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Makes sense. I need to pull apart all of my late war German 8mm and dump the powder so they stop rusting themselves to death.
 
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