1944 German Sniper Smock

Hercules said:
Here’s your photo.

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Hercules, I believe there is a miscommunication in what I was trying to convey. Your original picture seemed to show a very small hem stitched along the edge of the cuff (but I cannot see the inside of the cuff) so this is why I asked to see a better picture of yours. The period photo you show illustrates this area nicely so if yours looks like this then it indeed conforms to the typical construction. I hope you did not take my question as casting doubt upon the overall smock, to the contrary it is readily apparent that it is a period example by all measures. On a side note, even though these smocks have been reproduced the one thing they have not been able to achieve is an accurate veil. These are very distinctive and are the first and easiest indicator of an authentic piece.
 
Rheinmetall said:
Hercules, I believe there is a miscommunication in what I was trying to convey. Your original picture seemed to show a very small hem stitched along the edge of the cuff (but I cannot see the inside of the cuff) so this is why I asked to see a better picture of yours. The period photo you show illustrates this area nicely so if yours looks like this then it indeed conforms to the typical construction. I hope you did not take my question as casting doubt upon the overall smock, to the contrary it is readily apparent that it is a period example by all measures. On a side note, even though these smocks have been reproduced the one thing they have not been able to achieve is an accurate veil. These are very distinctive and are the first and easiest indicator of an authentic piece.
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OK. I figured the picture I posted was better and conveyed my thoughts more easily without a lot of extra typing. I see what your asking for now. I will post a photo later today or tomorrow.
 
Rheinmetall said:
Hercules, I believe there is a miscommunication in what I was trying to convey. Your original picture seemed to show a very small hem stitched along the edge of the cuff (but I cannot see the inside of the cuff) so this is why I asked to see a better picture of yours. The period photo you show illustrates this area nicely so if yours looks like this then it indeed conforms to the typical construction. I hope you did not take my question as casting doubt upon the overall smock, to the contrary it is readily apparent that it is a period example by all measures. On a side note, even though these smocks have been reproduced the one thing they have not been able to achieve is an accurate veil. These are very distinctive and are the first and easiest indicator of an authentic piece.
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I would point out that not all versions of this smock were manufactured with a veil. Many also had the veils removed as mentioned but many maybe most of these never had one. I don’t believe that the veils were well liked of perhaps practical in actual use. Many of these smocks can be seen in period photos worn by snipers and it has been written ( by snipers) that snipers graduating from sniper school were issued this smock, the sniper rifle and a few other items. I know most most on this forum know all of this but maybe some newer members do not. I also have seen plenty of snipers wearing versions of this smock with no veil present so as far as I’m concerned the veil has no connection to specific sniper issue but Is a feature tried and dropped. Based on what I’ve seen in photos many if not most snipers used green or tan mosquito nets, snipers soldbuch equipment list bear this out also.
 
Philip said:
I would point out that not all versions of this smock were manufactured with a veil. Many also had the veils removed as mentioned but many maybe most of these never had one. I don’t believe that the veils were well liked of perhaps practical in actual use. Many of these smocks can be seen in period photos worn by snipers and it has been written ( by snipers) that snipers graduating from sniper school were issued this smock, the sniper rifle and a few other items. I know most most on this forum know all of this but maybe some newer members do not. I also have seen plenty of snipers wearing versions of this smock with no veil present so as far as I’m concerned the veil has no connection to specific sniper issue but Is a feature tried and dropped. Based on what I’ve seen in photos many if not most snipers used green or tan mosquito nets, snipers soldbuch equipment list bear this out also.
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Phillip, see my initial post #5. The earlier production models of this smock were with veils but they were unpopular so were not incorporated in the later smocks. They even factory produced hoodless versions of these.
 
Rheinmetall said:
Hercules, I believe there is a miscommunication in what I was trying to convey. Your original picture seemed to show a very small hem stitched along the edge of the cuff (but I cannot see the inside of the cuff) so this is why I asked to see a better picture of yours. The period photo you show illustrates this area nicely so if yours looks like this then it indeed conforms to the typical construction. I hope you did not take my question as casting doubt upon the overall smock, to the contrary it is readily apparent that it is a period example by all measures. On a side note, even though these smocks have been reproduced the one thing they have not been able to achieve is an accurate veil. These are very distinctive and are the first and easiest indicator of an authentic piece.
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Here you go. My previous photo of period wartime smock was just as example. Would love to see pictures of your smock. I promise not to be critical. Posting pictures is not really a easy task and times becomes a thankless task. I appreciate the input I got here and honestly did my due diligence on this before purchase. I will say a couple of guys at the Wehrmacht Awards Forum were very helpful with information. No-one ever posts pictures of their smocks. I guess we can see why. To avoid possible conflicts of opinion maybe. Anyway, I don't care as I think this one is real. So, without hesitation posted it.

Also, you can see the RBN Number in pocket flap. These pictures are a lot better than anything I had to go by as well. So, maybe this will entice others to post theirs.

I should mention there are different versions of the smock and I am not saying this is the only kind, just the one I liked and bought.


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Thank you for the additional photos. So it does indeed have a small hem at the cuff as I was initially wondering. This is very atypical for these but must be a trait of this particular maker. If you look closely at the period photo that you posted you will see there is no folded over hem to the inside of the cuff (the camo side and white side both extend to the very edge). An interesting variation.

I will be away this weekend but per your request I will take some pictures of my smock upon my return and post them here on Monday. And no worries about being critical, there is nothing wrong with open discussion. :)
 
Rheinmetall said:
Phillip, see my initial post #5. The earlier production models of this smock were with veils but they were unpopular so were not incorporated in the later smocks. They even factory produced hoodless versions of these.
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Sorry I missed that comment earlier but I did read (just not very well!) your original post and agree. Not that it matters here, but as you no doubt know the first version of these Heer smocks were without hoods (as you cited) splinter pattern and in hbt generally. They may have been followed by a hoodless “water pattern” I’m not 100% sure but the hoods were a little later and yes I agree that the veils were probably first incorporated into the hoods and then dropped. All of this evolution must have moved pretty fast. I’ve seen these with three types of neck lace eyelets (I have two of the three) the sewn round ones like posted here in the photos, a longer “button hole” shaped eyelet and a blackened steel grommet eyelet. I believe that issue of these smocks was pretty limited to some infantry troops in certain units, snipers of course, forward observers and similar specialists but never rank and file German soldiers or no where near all front line infantry. Photos show that officers managed to get their share of them as well.
 
Philip said:
I’ve seen these with three types of neck lace eyelets (I have two of the three) the sewn round ones like posted here in the photos, a longer “button hole” shaped eyelet and a blackened steel grommet eyelet. I believe that issue of these smocks was pretty limited to some infantry troops in certain units, snipers of course, forward observers and similar specialists but never rank and file German soldiers or no where near all front line infantry. Photos show that officers managed to get their share of them as well.
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You are absolutely correct in regards to the three types of neck lace eyelets, I have observed all three types (mine has the longer "button hole" shape). However I disagree with your statement that these smocks were never issued to "rank and file German soldiers". It can clearly be seen in period photos that they were, but it is certainly true that they were not issued to all front line infantry. The problem with trying to estimate how often any later war item was utilized is that there was a notable decrease in photographic documentation in the field at this stage as opposed to the pre-war through mid-war periods. Here are a few I have saved in my picture files:

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And here are some pics of my smock. Note the standard raw edge of the cuffs and the "button hole" shaped eyelets. The neck closure cord is not original as this smock is unworn. I may not be the best photographer but I believe these will be sufficient.

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Rheinmetall said:
You are absolutely correct in regards to the three types of neck lace eyelets, I have observed all three types (mine has the longer "button hole" shape). However I disagree with your statement that these smocks were never issued to "rank and file German soldiers". It can clearly be seen in period photos that they were, but it is certainly true that they were not issued to all front line infantry. The problem with trying to estimate how often any later war item was utilized is that there was a notable decrease in photographic documentation in the field at this stage as opposed to the pre-war through mid-war periods. Here are a few I have saved in my picture files:

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That first picture is very interesting. 3 of the 4 we can see are wearing jack boots but also have just a single k98 pouch.
 
Rheinmetall said:
And here are some pics of my smock. Note the standard raw edge of the cuffs and the "button hole" shaped eyelets. The neck closure cord is not original as this smock is unworn. I may not be the best photographer but I believe these will be sufficient.

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Interesting and thanks for posting yours. I take a closer look at the pictures tonight.
 
I think that the disconnect at least on my end may be how “rank and file” are viewed. We have a difficult time in most cases knowing what the true role or even the unit was or is when seeing random photos of German troops wearing this smocks. One exception is when they are also holding a scoped rifle. Based on many photos that I have seen I would say issue was pretty widespread in the line companies of the GD division and the Ski-Jager division (or was it a regiment or brigade, I’m having brain lock) the infantry of PZ Lehr, and a few other similar “elite” divisions where testing and new equipment was prioritized. I don’t know the full extent of issue but it just does not seem very common to whole units of standard infantry divisions wearing these even in the relatively few photos we see from the end of 1944-May 45. One would think Ol that if Hundreds of thousands of those were made, much less millions, we would be seeing a LOT more of them. I collected uniforms probably for five years back in the 1970s before running across my first Heer smock.
 
Philip, Skijäger were formed in 43 as a Brigade and expanded in 44 into the 1. Skijäger Division.
I read somewhere everyone of the Jägers had either a MP44 or a G43.
Here is a picture showing the Jäger wearing Sumpftarn, notice they were also given Fallschirmjäger gravity knives.

Skijäger aiming his brand new MP.43.jpggerman-soldiers-from-1st-ski-division-1-skijc3a4ger-division-armed-with-stg-44-sturmgewehr-44-...jpg
 
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We have to remember that photographic evidence has a bias to it. Official photos were taken of elite units, units that had been recently reequipped etc. Something that was good for propaganda, like the photo above with British paras.
 
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