Ok, yes, so I need to clean it out correct?
1939 Mauser K98k info needed
- Thread starter jwdomfs
- Start date
Leaf-blowing gooback
ButTroll
Yes I have a cleaning kit because I have a 9mm & a 22. Like I was asking, can I disassemble the gun & clean it? I just don’t want to mess anything up.
I took off the butt plate to look at the wood & cleaned that up.
Leaf-blowing gooback
ButTroll
Kool, we see a qualified Erma K98k bore cleaner!
Sure - just pop the bolt out, grab an 8mm/.32 caliber bore brush, rod & patches, then have-at that krusty bore w/ some solvent, patches & oil.
Sure - just pop the bolt out, grab an 8mm/.32 caliber bore brush, rod & patches, then have-at that krusty bore w/ some solvent, patches & oil.
Thanks so much for the help. So cool to learn about all of this with the rifle. Do people use anything to try to clean the metal component’s like the bolt, butt metal piece, wood?
I just ordered the Vol 2 books today to learn more.
Can you find the cleaning rods or bayonets that attached to these anywhere?
Leaf-blowing gooback
ButTroll
This is all constructive, but am a bit surprised at the quoted post: as we now see inexperience, & at this point I must suggest not doing any cleaning per above, because the finish(es) on this nice example could be damaged (or worse) & value detracted.
Best not to overthink a simple gun cleaning drill, so it might be time to seek out some help from a local gunsmith.
Whoever does the work needs to know this important fact: the bore is compromised by jacket fouling at the least, & a bulged barrel at the worst - yes, it actually looks that bad. Somewhere in between these 2 common faults is the remains of an insect nest (ala mud wasp, etc) - damn things leave behind a nasty mix of chemicals that will ruin a perfect bore with ringed pits/stains.
Very good to see the reference material ordered! We hereby welcome you to a fine new hobby/obsession. Hint: there is no known cure.
The native trader is a good place to score bits like the early 25cm cleaning rod, bayo & scabbard by posting a WTB ad. Include the needed s/n, & WaA ......... you might be amazed! Some others are: TUCOs K98k WTB forum trader, ePay & GunBroker.
Good luck!
Last edited:
Good advice but can it be trusted with any gunsmith? I have a friend locally that taught me my C&C class so maybe he knows of someone reputable. I agree that I don’t want to mess anything up, can the bore cleaning bristles you showed using CLP be used to run through the bore to clean it?
Leaf-blowing gooback
ButTroll
The info needed is posted above & I'm just seeing more & more confusion here, so please find anybody to help out.
Have you ever fired, or cleaned any type of weapon?
Have you ever fired, or cleaned any type of weapon?
Like I said in my earlier response I own a M&P Shield 9mm & a 22. Plus I have a conceal & carry permit so I think basic gun operation is a given. Thanks for the advice, duly noted. Don’t bother to reply anymore, I was simply asking a question so don’t appreciate the condescending remarks.
Herk1994
Senior Member
Not to make insult to your intelligence OP, but I would recommend being very, very careful removing and installing butt plates. You might find while reinstalling it that a once tight butt plate isn’t so anymore, after being pulled off. Sometimes the screws don’t have anything left to bite into. Just speaking from past experience.
Leaf-blowing gooback
ButTroll
Kids don't give orders, & more than 1 member here has offered savvy advice. There's just no future in being butt-hurt.
It's OK to learn from asking questions - over & over, even. It's not up to me to comprehend the answers - that's why you're here: to learn something, no matter how long it takes.
When we all see questions like: "Can I disassemble the gun & clean it?" or "Do many people disassemble these & clean them?" - it makes us wonder if this kid can blow his own nose, or even zip his own fly.
You're playing in the Big Leagues now, dear fellow: & it's time to start acting like a collector.
Last edited:
heavy_mech
RKI- Reasonably Knowledgable Individual
It's a very desirable weapon in quite good condition and original to the point of being 'matching to the screws'. Yes, cleaning is possible and can or should be done depending on what we're talking about. There are some who would advise to touch nothing as it's 'original', but I don't find cobwebs, insect nests or rust to be 'collectible'. My only caution would be to be VERY conservative and go slow. Once something is damaged, you can't ever undo it. NO steel wool, scrapers, sandpaper or aggressive cleaners. You may find dubious advice on the interwebs including things like oven cleaner being used on stocks. For the wood, a simple wipe down with a clean cloth is probably sufficient.
heavy_mech
RKI- Reasonably Knowledgable Individual
Someone mentioned the wood screws and how easily the holes can be fouled which is certainly true. A bit of advice I learned is if you hold them with your fingers only and turn them backwards with VERY light downward pressure, you'll actually feel them drop and you will reengage the original threads in the wood. This keeps from stripping out the holes.
Cyrano4747
Well-known member
Damn, learn something new every day. I’ve been doing this for decades and didn’t know that trick.
runner
Senior Member
First welcome to the forum, and kudos to you for wanting to honor and preserve your grandfather’s legacy.
There are some extremely advanced collectors and students of the K98k on this forum, probably the best source of information available, but that doesn’t mean everyone here is an expert.
I do not want to sound condescending, but having a good general understanding of firearms doesn’t directly correlate to historical arms.
Proper cleaning/maintenance procedures for a modern carry gun (I too am a fan of the Shield, recently purchased a Shield EZ for my wife.) and a collectible arm are very different. My carry gun is going to get field stripped and vigorously scrubbed after every shooting session, if that results in a little finish wear, that is inconsequential, your K98k doesn’t need that, in fact that approach would be harmful. Even within the general classification of collectible arms, the approach to maintenance will be different. I’m getting old and trying to downsize my collection, but I still pick up items of particular interest to me. My last two Mauser purchases were a 1935 vintage Standard Modell and a 1941 Mauser Berlin K98k. The Standard Modell was a Chinese import and came to me filthy, missing parts and covered in grime and active rust And little original finish. This rifle was totally disassembled, cleaned, missing parts replaced with period parts. In this instance cleaning involved lots of solvent, oil and brass brushes. The 1941 K98k was in a condition similar to yours ( unfortunately with a non matching bolt) and needed none of the procedures of the Standard Modell. All it got was a stock wipe down with a very slightly damp cotton cloth to remove surface dirt. The metal got the same treatment with a slightly oiled cotton cloth. It did not need A total disassembly. If I disassemble a rifle like this it is for the purpose of recording internal markings as opposed to unnecessary cleaning. Disassembly, even with care and using proper tools, risks accidental marring of finish, removing the buttplate on your well preserved example was not necessary as it needed minimal cleaning and I have scratched more than one in my early collecting days removing the screws.
From your photos the only thing I see that would give me concern is the corrosion on the upper barrel band, A little oil on a terry cloth towel would address that. I would run an oiled cotton swab down the bore and call it good. Assuming you do not intend to fire it, that is all that is needed. The bore has survived in pretty good condition for 50 years, stored in a humidity controlled environment, it will survive the next fifty just as well.
Taking it to a gunsmith is generally a terrible idea Unless an actual repair is needed. Gunsmiths are trained to “fix things” generally working guns, and tend to take the same approach with historical items, yours is not broken and it would probably come back to you in an “over cleaned“ condition. I don’t mean to be critical of all smiths. I’m getting ready to take a 1842 Springfield musket to my local guy, but I trust him to do only what I specifically request.
Relative to having it displayed in a museum, I think that is admirable as long as you trust the institution and its staff. I worked for a large Civil War historical park and museum for 6 years, and unfortunately too many staff people are not well trained in preserving artifacts.
An original cleaning rod and bayonet are easily attainable. The trader forum here is a good place to start. The cleaning rod originally with your rifle would have been marked with the last two numbers of the rifles serial number, matching that will take a lot of luck. Bayonets had matching numbers on the blade and scabbard, but we’re not numbered to the rifle on German military rifles. I like to match bayonets to the year of the rifle, but the Germans issued whatever was available.
Again congratulations on a great piece af family history.
There are some extremely advanced collectors and students of the K98k on this forum, probably the best source of information available, but that doesn’t mean everyone here is an expert.
I do not want to sound condescending, but having a good general understanding of firearms doesn’t directly correlate to historical arms.
Proper cleaning/maintenance procedures for a modern carry gun (I too am a fan of the Shield, recently purchased a Shield EZ for my wife.) and a collectible arm are very different. My carry gun is going to get field stripped and vigorously scrubbed after every shooting session, if that results in a little finish wear, that is inconsequential, your K98k doesn’t need that, in fact that approach would be harmful. Even within the general classification of collectible arms, the approach to maintenance will be different. I’m getting old and trying to downsize my collection, but I still pick up items of particular interest to me. My last two Mauser purchases were a 1935 vintage Standard Modell and a 1941 Mauser Berlin K98k. The Standard Modell was a Chinese import and came to me filthy, missing parts and covered in grime and active rust And little original finish. This rifle was totally disassembled, cleaned, missing parts replaced with period parts. In this instance cleaning involved lots of solvent, oil and brass brushes. The 1941 K98k was in a condition similar to yours ( unfortunately with a non matching bolt) and needed none of the procedures of the Standard Modell. All it got was a stock wipe down with a very slightly damp cotton cloth to remove surface dirt. The metal got the same treatment with a slightly oiled cotton cloth. It did not need A total disassembly. If I disassemble a rifle like this it is for the purpose of recording internal markings as opposed to unnecessary cleaning. Disassembly, even with care and using proper tools, risks accidental marring of finish, removing the buttplate on your well preserved example was not necessary as it needed minimal cleaning and I have scratched more than one in my early collecting days removing the screws.
From your photos the only thing I see that would give me concern is the corrosion on the upper barrel band, A little oil on a terry cloth towel would address that. I would run an oiled cotton swab down the bore and call it good. Assuming you do not intend to fire it, that is all that is needed. The bore has survived in pretty good condition for 50 years, stored in a humidity controlled environment, it will survive the next fifty just as well.
Taking it to a gunsmith is generally a terrible idea Unless an actual repair is needed. Gunsmiths are trained to “fix things” generally working guns, and tend to take the same approach with historical items, yours is not broken and it would probably come back to you in an “over cleaned“ condition. I don’t mean to be critical of all smiths. I’m getting ready to take a 1842 Springfield musket to my local guy, but I trust him to do only what I specifically request.
Relative to having it displayed in a museum, I think that is admirable as long as you trust the institution and its staff. I worked for a large Civil War historical park and museum for 6 years, and unfortunately too many staff people are not well trained in preserving artifacts.
An original cleaning rod and bayonet are easily attainable. The trader forum here is a good place to start. The cleaning rod originally with your rifle would have been marked with the last two numbers of the rifles serial number, matching that will take a lot of luck. Bayonets had matching numbers on the blade and scabbard, but we’re not numbered to the rifle on German military rifles. I like to match bayonets to the year of the rifle, but the Germans issued whatever was available.
Again congratulations on a great piece af family history.
Cyrano4747
Well-known member
My advice is to leave the gun in the stock unless you know what you’re doing. Don’t hand this off to a gunsmith, a lot of them will screw up a collectable firearm.
As for cleaning, just clean it like you would any other bolt rifle, but take some extra care to keep the muzzle down so any fluid drains forward and out rather than dripping back and into the wood behind the receiver.
If it were mine I’d hit it with a bore brush, then run a bore snake to sweep out the biggest crap, then run patches with a gentle solvent. I’m a fan of BoreTech Eliminator, but god knows I’ve cleaned a lot of very nice guns with ye olde humble Hoppes. Basically as long as you’re not throwing the really caustic stuff down it without knowing what you’re doing (e.g. some copper fouling solvents) you’re good.
Edit: stay away from the foaming cleaners. They tend to get everywhere and have extra shite in them. I’ve got a very nice m28 Mosin with a streak on the stock from that crap.
As for cleaning, just clean it like you would any other bolt rifle, but take some extra care to keep the muzzle down so any fluid drains forward and out rather than dripping back and into the wood behind the receiver.
If it were mine I’d hit it with a bore brush, then run a bore snake to sweep out the biggest crap, then run patches with a gentle solvent. I’m a fan of BoreTech Eliminator, but god knows I’ve cleaned a lot of very nice guns with ye olde humble Hoppes. Basically as long as you’re not throwing the really caustic stuff down it without knowing what you’re doing (e.g. some copper fouling solvents) you’re good.
Edit: stay away from the foaming cleaners. They tend to get everywhere and have extra shite in them. I’ve got a very nice m28 Mosin with a streak on the stock from that crap.
Thank you very much for the constructive advice and detailed suggestions. I’m a 53 year old surgeon & just recently started doing a lot of research on my grandfathers service history from his discharge paperwork. Part of that has been to get the details of this rifle he left me.
On a separate note regarding WW II history, how could I access the POW camps for German POW and find out the commanders over those camps?
From my research I know my grandfather was a Lt. Col & was in charge of a large POW camp in the Rhine theater. It was one of the first ones that had the capability to treat injured soldiers with a medical facility.
I don’t know what the name of the camp was or its specific location. I believe it may have been one of the ones in the UK but I’m not positive.
This site has been a huge help.
Cyrano4747
Well-known member
The short version is, it would be a research project, although not a major one. It's not really something you'll be able to do online.
The fact that it was a camp in the Rhineland both helps and hinders you. Those were all temporary measures that mostly served as holding pens to process the millions of surrendering Germans that they had to deal with in early 1945. The good news is that knowing that gives you a starting location, and we know (roughly) how many of them there were (more on that later). The terms you want to start with is Rheinweisenlager and Prisoner of War Temporary Enclosure. That sounds like what you're describing. There are 19 known ones, although the US Army admitted in the 70s that they had lost track of some of the smaller ones in the interim. I'm presuming your grandfather was in the US military. If you can piece together what unit he was in, towns that he was located near, etc. it would be a big help. From there you're probably just going to have to dig in at NARA and try to chase threads. You can start looking at their catalog online and searching, for example I just dug up the Roster of Internees at Prisoner of War Temporary Enclosure C-3-Heilbrown- 16 Oct 45. (edit: to be clear that is likely useless to you, just an example of something I could dig up in about 30 seconds of poking around in the POW Temporary Enclosure files) Unfortunately past that - as in actually looking at records - there's not really a good way to do that remotely - it will involve either traveling to the DC area yourself, or hiring a researcher to do that for you. If you're REALLY lucky you might find a few that have been digitized, but they're far and few between.
If you have any way of getting some more specifics from family or from your grandfather's records that will help a lot. It's not impossible without that - you've obviously got his name, for example - but every little bit helps to focus it.
There's also a non-zero chance that if he was a camp commander that something exists about him in the German state archives. Correspondence and the like, I've worked in those records and it's not uncommon for the first few years of the occupation to find a lot of interaction with the occupation authorities. That's a secondary place to focus, though. First stop is going to be NARA.
runner
Senior Member
My father was also a combat veteran of the European theater. 6th armored division, Patton’s third army. Dad was severely wounded just a few weeks before the German surrender, he spent the the next 18 months in hospitals in France, England, and then the US. None of Dad’s personal belongings, his dufflebag, stored in England where he had trained for the invasion, or his backpack stored in the squad’s half track were ever returned to him. When he was finally discharged in 1946, they had to issue him new class A’s, as his only uniform was hospital garb. When he came home he had only his wallet, watch and pocket knife that were in his pockets when he was hit, and his Purple Heart, that was awarded to him in the hospital.
I knew dad had at least met the requirements for the Infantry Combat Badge, and the European Campaign Medal, and since Dad had no interest in pursuing this, I took up the task, this was in 1993. I wrote to the National archives, requesting information on the circumstances of Dads injury ( Dad was unconscious for some time and couldn’t even remember the exact day he was hit) his service records and any awards/medals he may be entitled to, and how he could acquire them.
in a few weeks I received a reply stating they had received my request, but since my dad was still living, they could not provide me with any information, the request needed to come from him. They were nice enough to provide the necessary forms dad needed to fill out. Knowing dad would not fill out all the paperwork, I did what any good son would do, I filled it out myself, called him and said I had a paper he needed to sign so if anything happened to me and my wife, my company could provide benefits information for our minor children to him on their behalf. The next time we visited, I casually said Dad, here’s that paper I need you to sign. He signed it without a glance. So off go all the proper forms, with proper signature, to the archives.
A few weeks later I received a box with a copy of dad’s Honorable discharge, and replacements for all his decorations and awards including European campaign with combat device and a Bronze Star. The only thing they did not send was a Purple Heart because their records indicated it had already been presented. Also included was a letter indicating they could not provide details about his various duty assignments, as his were among the thousands of WWll veterans records that were destroyed in a fire.
I had all the medals along with 6th armored and 3rd army patches, his NCO stripes and branch insignia professionally framed and presented it to him on his next birthday. When Dad died in 2017 at age 101, he specified in his will that all his belongings be divided equally among his children, except two things were to go to me, his 1983 Chevy pickup, (I had maintained this for him for years after he quit driving) and his framed medals. Today those medals and the one photo we have of dad in uniform hang in my living room and will one day go to my son.
The above is an awful lot of words to say that any trouble you go to, to preserve and honor your father’s service is well worth it.
Good luck
