1911/14 Erfurt Kar98a

[chrisftk]

Is there any hunches as to why this receiver would have intially gone unused?

It's something that pops up, particularly in early war stuff when they were clamouring for rifles. Jordan has an 07/14 Danzig Gew98 and there are several others known with similar circumstances.

Reasons for lack of initial use could have been previously failed parts that weren't re-inspected until later, surplus production, misdirected parts, who knows? What we do know is it occurred and they are cool to encounter.

 

[Cyrano4747]

It's something that pops up, particularly in early war stuff when they were clamouring for rifles. Jordan has an 07/14 Danzig Gew98 and there are several others known with similar circumstances.

Reasons for lack of initial use could have been previously failed parts that weren't re-inspected until later, surplus production, misdirected parts, who knows? What we do know is it occurred and they are cool to encounter.

One theory I've heard - and take this with a huge grain of salt because I've never seen anything substantive to support it, just collector theorycrafting - is that they were essentially contract overruns. 50,000 rifles are slated to be produced in 1907, you make 51,00 (or however many) to account for inevitable rejections, and end up with 50,500 in-spec, ready to use receivers. No reason to throw them away, they don't take up much room, toss them in the proverbial closet until they're needed. 1914 happens, production ramps up to as much as humanly possible, and that old over-run stock gets blown through to send rifles out the door.

 

[mauser1908]

That's a cool find Jordan. I don't recall seeing many other dual dated 98a-- particularly non-consecutive years.

The c/C c/D and c/V acceptance on the RR would be more characteristic of 1911/12 production I've seen, as would the c/S bolt. The c/B wrist acceptance/final assembly makes more sense for 1914. That's a bit of a strange combo, but these things turn up.

My thought would be leftover parts or loose partially assembled rifles that were rounded up and assembled amongst 1914 production.. The more interesting thing here is that I have a low (#270) no-suffix '14 Erfurt, so these, if there was a small run of rifles assembled from leftovers, were something done midstream, perhaps as a bolstering to production when war began. It would be interesting if others emerge within the same range.

Either way, neat rifle. Thanks for taking the time to post it up.

That’s a very insightful observation, Chris.

Great rifle, Jordan! Stock is bananas in that thing.

 

[chrisftk]

One theory I've heard - and take this with a huge grain of salt because I've never seen anything substantive to support it, just collector theorycrafting - is that they were essentially contract overruns. 50,000 rifles are slated to be produced in 1907, you make 51,00 (or however many) to account for inevitable rejections, and end up with 50,500 in-spec, ready to use receivers. No reason to throw them away, they don't take up much room, toss them in the proverbial closet until they're needed. 1914 happens, production ramps up to as much as humanly possible, and that old over-run stock gets blown through to send rifles out the door.

We've been able to nail down that WMO may have done "extra innings" with production. I've got a 15/16 date that is an "x" suffix, coincidentally also the high water mark for 1915. So they likely kept using 1915 SNs for receivers dated 1915 until they ran out, just adding a "16" to show when it was assembled

The arsenals quite possibly had a different operating model though

 

[Warrior1354]

This to me would probably be one of the strangest combinations Cyrano. There is no complete 1912 Danzig Gew98 in Imperial configuration that exists. That arsenal was not even producing rifles that year, only carbines. So why did Danzig produce 1912 dated Gewehr 98 receivers? Were they gearing up for a possible rifle contract again, or were they going to supply receivers to another arsenal. Perhaps? Only two examples like this are known both 1912/15, and both in the same serial number range. Finding a straight up 1912 Danzig Gew98 would be really something to see! Nowadays, no telling what will pop up. Maybe, one of these will reveal itself in the future.

And thank you for the kind words everybody. I still have a couple other rifles I need to get posted up still.

 

[Cyrano4747]

This to me would probably be one of the strangest combinations Cyrano. There is no complete 1912 Danzig Gew98 in Imperial configuration that exists. That arsenal was not even producing rifles that year, only carbines. So why did Danzig produce 1912 dated Gewehr 98 receivers? Were they gearing up for a possible rifle contract again, or were they going to supply receivers to another arsenal. Perhaps? Only two examples like this are known both 1912/15, and both in the same serial number range. Finding a straight up 1912 Danzig Gew98 would be really something to see! Nowadays, no telling what will pop up. Maybe, one of these will reveal itself in the future.

And thank you for the kind words everybody. I still have a couple other rifles I need to get posted up still.


View attachment 354993

Apropos of nothing, I love how the right side of the "2" got smooshed in a bit by the "/" strike. Really shows how much material gets displaced by proper stamping. Mostly something I'm thinking about in conjunction with another discussion on how to spot etched fake markings.

 

[PrayingMantis]

Double dates certainly are interesting. And hard to study because they are so few and so inconsistent (until you get to the wartime Dresdens anyway). This Erfurt seems to have a wide variety of pre-War Erfurt acceptance, as Chris mentioned, which leads one to think it may be a hodgepodge of unassembled parts put together after the war began, almost like a Stern. But this is pure speculation until more 1914 Erfurt Kars can be examined for comparison.

Thanks for the photos, it's in the reference.