KARAB 98B - What do I Have?

The barrel code is K4C eagle/6 throughout? From little trends available what you show of the action is original to mfg. The bolt lower flat is the thing that interested me most though... it is rare finding an original bolt this early, the lower flat (underside opposite the top flat serial) is crucial to determination of originality. Such a bolt alone would pull $200 or more alone, possibly double if as nice as it appears. You can find dated Simsons (25 dated any way- 24 & 26 dated 98b are as rare as hens teeth...) but a-blocks and early b-blocks are super rare... We must get a peek at that bolt acceptance & FP!!!

This a rather rifle, the stock cut the value in half but this rare it probably could pull a good price, but the bolt will make huge difference,

Loewe said:

The barrel code is K4C eagle/6 throughout? From little trends available what you show of the action is original to mfg. The bolt lower flat is the thing that interested me most though... it is rare finding an original bolt this early, the lower flat (underside opposite the top flat serial) is crucial to determination of originality. Such a bolt alone would pull $200 or more alone, possibly double if as nice as it appears. You can find dated Simsons (25 dated any way- 24 & 26 dated 98b are as rare as hens teeth...) but a-blocks and early b-blocks are super rare... We must get a peek at that bolt acceptance & FP!!!

This a rather rifle, the stock cut the value in half but this rare it probably could pull a good price, but the bolt will make huge difference,

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Here are some pictures of the Bolt under the serial numbered area you mentioned, if these are what you needed to see. Looks like eagles, one has an eagle 6, then other Eagle is larger and slightly different, also might be upside down (Hard to tell) from the other, then there is another tiny Eagle 6 oriented the same as the other eagle 6, which I had to use a magnifying glass to see it well enough to make it out. Look forward to hearing back from you on this, it is getting intriguing.

Loewe said:

The barrel code is K4C eagle/6 throughout? From little trends available what you show of the action is original to mfg. The bolt lower flat is the thing that interested me most though... it is rare finding an original bolt this early, the lower flat (underside opposite the top flat serial) is crucial to determination of originality. Such a bolt alone would pull $200 or more alone, possibly double if as nice as it appears. You can find dated Simsons (25 dated any way- 24 & 26 dated 98b are as rare as hens teeth...) but a-blocks and early b-blocks are super rare... We must get a peek at that bolt acceptance & FP!!!

This a rather rifle, the stock cut the value in half but this rare it probably could pull a good price, but the bolt will make huge difference,

Click to expand...

Also Found another marking underside of the bolt back end, not sure if you need it or can make it out, so I did 3 pictures of it from different angles.

You show enough to determine this is a factory rifle, not significant work done to it, rare for such an early Simson; the stock is a goner for sure, someone threw away $1000 if done recently, since the 80's these have been desirable and although we know much more today, this type of vandalism (sporterizaton) has long been a problem.

Most do not trend like I do and fewer use my categorization (breakdown pattern), so rarity can depend on observations and how catalogued, but this is still a desirable rifle mostly due being early with its factory bolt and barrel, the stock is a mixed blessing, being original to mfg is rare for this range, its condition a great liability to value, still not a common rifle n this condition, most in this range have worse problems and we do not know what condition the stock was in prior owners. It might not have been as good as the metal...

Loewe said:

You show enough to determine this is a factory rifle, not significant work done to it, rare for such an early Simson; the stock is a goner for sure, someone threw away $1000 if done recently, since the 80's these have been desirable and although we know much more today, this type of vandalism (sporterizaton) has long been a problem.

Most do not trend like I do and fewer use my categorization (breakdown pattern), so rarity can depend on observations and how catalogued, but this is still a desirable rifle mostly due being early with its factory bolt and barrel, the stock is a mixed blessing, being original to mfg is rare for this range, its condition a great liability to value, still not a common rifle n this condition, most in this range have worse problems and we do not know what condition the stock was in prior owners. It might not have been as good as the metal...

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Not sure when the stock was sporterized, my Father had this, and never mentioned where he picked it up, although my grandfather was in the Navy in WWII, and it may be that he brought it home, and did the stock back in the late 60's to mid 70's, if this is actually the original stock, that was modified, unfortunately there is no way for me to know at this stage in life.
Do you think this is the original stock, just modified? I know it may be hard to speculate, since the only markings left on it were the ones shown pictured (top-rear, under the receiver tang rear-most in the trough) earlier.
As a collector, what do you think would be the best way to restore? Use a mismatched serialized original stock, and stock metal, or reproduction items? Or would it just be best to let sleeping dogs lie, and leave it as is?

I am currently at odds as to what I wish to do with it, it is a fascinating Historical arm, and although I am very interested in it's history, I don't usually prefer to have so many odd calibers in my collection, despite the fact that this rifle still shoots well, it uses ammunition I don't typically keep on hand, mainly because I typically collect U.S. made WWII Surplus Military arms, though I confess to formerly having had a Swiss K-31, as well as a few U.S. Krag's around, but got out of them due to Ammunition Prices going insane.
It may end up being best to offer this to someone who would greatly appreciate it's History, and craftsmanship more than I, but I do really like the rifle, it is a work of art in it's own right, I just like to shoot what I collect too, and thinking that adding a bunch of mileage to it seems like something to avoid on this one, since from what you, and others have mentioned here, it appears rather scarce to find one with original bolt/barrel combinations in this vintage, and condition.
I appreciate all the information given from everyone here, and just want to do this rifle justice, so no more harm comes to it with mod's, also so it does not get forgotten, or lost in the daily shuffle with the passage of time. Whether I keep it, or give it a good home, it will be well cared for, so I know my Father would be pleased that I took the time, and care to do so either way.
Thanks again for all of your current, and any future input, as well as everyone else's comments here, they are all greatly appreciated, and I look forward to any other information that comes up.

My vote would be to leave it as is. What's done is done and it would cost a fair bit in today's money to try and make it 'correct', but it would still be mismatched.

I'll edit this with the IF you could possibly find a correct stock then of course you'd want to fix it. Maybe not quite hen's teeth, but probably close.

What ever you do, keep the sporterized stock, it is worthless alone, to a collector it would possess some value. HM is right, finding a loose 98b stock is nearly as hard as finding a good wife; finding a range correct one loose would be as tough as finding that perfect wife and winning her!

KARAB 98B Newbee said:

Not sure when the stock was sporterized, my Father had this, and never mentioned where he picked it up, although my grandfather was in the Navy in WWII, and it may be that he brought it home, and did the stock back in the late 60's to mid 70's, if this is actually the original stock, that was modified, unfortunately there is no way for me to know at this stage in life.
Do you think this is the original stock, just modified? I know it may be hard to speculate, since the only markings left on it were the ones shown pictured (top-rear, under the receiver tang rear-most in the trough) earlier.

I am currently at odds as to what I wish to do with it, it is a fascinating Historical arm, and although I am very interested in it's history, I don't usually prefer to have so many odd calibers in my collection, despite the fact that this rifle still shoots well, it uses ammunition I don't typically keep on hand, mainly because I typically collect U.S. made WWII Surplus Military arms, though I confess to formerly having had a Swiss K-31, as well as a few U.S. Krag's around, but got out of them due to Ammunition Prices going insane.
It may end up being best to offer this to someone who would greatly appreciate it's History, and craftsmanship more than I, but I do really like the rifle, it is a work of art in it's own right, I just like to shoot what I collect too, and thinking that adding a bunch of mileage to it seems like something to avoid on this one, since from what you, and others have mentioned here, it appears rather scarce to find one with original bolt/barrel combinations in this vintage, and condition.
I appreciate all the information given from everyone here, and just want to do this rifle justice, so no more harm comes to it with mod's, also so it does not get forgotten, or lost in the daily shuffle with the passage of time. Whether I keep it, or give it a good home, it will be well cared for, so I know my Father would be pleased that I took the time, and care to do so either way.
Thanks again for all of your current, and any future input, as well as everyone else's comments here, they are all greatly appreciated, and I look forward to any other information that comes up.

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If the stock was the original stock, it will be numbered to the rifle inside the barrel channel though you'll have to pull the action out to see it. Keep the sporterized stock as you can always use it if you come across another barreled action. If you wish to restore it, you'll likely need the following parts:

• Stock
• Handguard
• Front Barrel Band
• Rear Barrel Band
• Bayonet Lug
• Front Band Spring
• Rear Band Spring
• Buttplate
• Takedown Disc
• Cleaning Rod

Weimar marked 98b parts are very difficult to find though some diligent searching can net you what you're looking for. If you're okay with taking some liberties (repro stock, early K98k bands instead of 98b bands, etc.), then you can get pretty close to restoring it using other parts. I have taken a few liberties with my restoration to try to get it to at least somewhat close but the journey of restoring it and the eventual final product makes it worth it in my eyes. It's been over 2 years for trying to restore mine but we're getting down the home stretch and it's entirely feasible if you have the patience to go through with it. I started out with a rifle very similar to yours when I started my restoration.

With a gun like this I'd probably go the restoration route. Don't throw the current stock out or anything, but it would drive me absolutely nuts not having it in military configuration. As An94 points out there are frequently short cuts you can take that aren't totally correct but good enough to work as a placeholder while you keep your eyes out for something more correct.

Loewe said:

What ever you do, keep the sporterized stock, it is worthless alone, to a collector it would possess some value. HM is right, finding a loose 98b stock is nearly as hard as finding a good wife; finding a range correct one loose would be as tough as finding that perfect wife and winning her!

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So,,, there is a chance? Kinda like a Snowball in Hell chance,,, Lol.

AN-94 said:

If the stock was the original stock, it will be numbered to the rifle inside the barrel channel though you'll have to pull the action out to see it. Keep the sporterized stock as you can always use it if you come across another barreled action. If you wish to restore it, you'll likely need the following parts:

• Stock
• Handguard
• Front Barrel Band
• Rear Barrel Band
• Bayonet Lug
• Front Band Spring
• Rear Band Spring
• Buttplate
• Takedown Disc
• Cleaning Rod

Weimar marked 98b parts are very difficult to find though some diligent searching can net you what you're looking for. If you're okay with taking some liberties (repro stock, early K98k bands instead of 98b bands, etc.), then you can get pretty close to restoring it using other parts. I have taken a few liberties with my restoration to try to get it to at least somewhat close but the journey of restoring it and the eventual final product makes it worth it in my eyes. It's been over 2 years for trying to restore mine but we're getting down the home stretch and it's entirely feasible if you have the patience to go through with it. I started out with a rifle very similar to yours when I started my restoration.

Rescuing a sporterized Kar98b?

So I came across a sporterized late f block Kar98b for sale locally. The stock was been cut down (but not the barrel) and the sling slot and bolt takedown disc filled in with wood and the bottom of the stock inletted for a Gewehr 98 sling swivel with a Gewehr 98 barrel band to attach the sling...

www.k98kforum.com

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My stock looks as though someone tried to bed it at one time, but then later removed some of the bedding material at another point,since now with the exception of a ring (At Front of sight) receiver end/mid barrel that rests in the stock bed the entire stock from where the action sits in the stock to the fore-end is free floating. I can take a shim,, or piece of paper and run it between the barrel and stock freely, with the exception of the ring touching mid length. Unfortunately, the bedding chunks left on the wood are either hiding the number, or it was sanded off. Perhaps I can gently remove the old bedding material to discover a serial number, but kind of leery of trying to do that, since it could damage it further in an attempt. I will have to assess what they used first, but if it was an epoxy of any kind, or wood glue, mixed with sawdust/rosin, it would be a no go task for sure. I am thinking if I can find reproduction parts, un-serialized, that might be the best bet, so it looks proper, but is not mismatched in number. Only time and searching for parts will tell it seems at this point. Thanks for the rescue link, and your input.

AN-94 said:

If the stock was the original stock, it will be numbered to the rifle inside the barrel channel though you'll have to pull the action out to see it. Keep the sporterized stock as you can always use it if you come across another barreled action. If you wish to restore it, you'll likely need the following parts:

• Stock
• Handguard
• Front Barrel Band
• Rear Barrel Band
• Bayonet Lug
• Front Band Spring
• Rear Band Spring
• Buttplate
• Takedown Disc
• Cleaning Rod

Weimar marked 98b parts are very difficult to find though some diligent searching can net you what you're looking for. If you're okay with taking some liberties (repro stock, early K98k bands instead of 98b bands, etc.), then you can get pretty close to restoring it using other parts. I have taken a few liberties with my restoration to try to get it to at least somewhat close but the journey of restoring it and the eventual final product makes it worth it in my eyes. It's been over 2 years for trying to restore mine but we're getting down the home stretch and it's entirely feasible if you have the patience to go through with it. I started out with a rifle very similar to yours when I started my restoration.

Rescuing a sporterized Kar98b?

So I came across a sporterized late f block Kar98b for sale locally. The stock was been cut down (but not the barrel) and the sling slot and bolt takedown disc filled in with wood and the bottom of the stock inletted for a Gewehr 98 sling swivel with a Gewehr 98 barrel band to attach the sling...

www.k98kforum.com

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PS; Question??? Approximately where would the serial number in the stock channel be located if it was buried in there? Mid length/close to receiver, or closer to the barrel front? Any rough estimation would help me see what I could find. I have an old Richmond Civil War short rifle, that once I knew where to look, I was able see the markings that I had glanced over as scratches previously, so knowing where to look helps immensely. Appreciate any clues on proximity for stock numbers/symbols, thanks.

PS: Anyone with any sources for reproduction stocks, parts, or metal stock components, other than sources in the thread previously mentioned, would be extremely helpful should I go the reproduction route (Even as a temporary fix until I could locate the real McCoys), thanks.

KARAB 98B Newbee said:

PS; Question??? Approximately where would the serial number in the stock channel be located if it was buried in there? Mid length/close to receiver, or closer to the barrel front? Any rough estimation would help me see what I could find. I have an old Richmond Civil War short rifle, that once I knew where to look, I was able see the markings that I had glanced over as scratches previously, so knowing where to look helps immensely. Appreciate any clues on proximity for stock numbers/symbols, thanks.

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The stock number should be located in the barrel channel where the rear sight base would be nested when it's all put together so closer to the receiver.

AN-94 said:

The stock number should be located in the barrel channel where the rear sight base would be nested when it's all put together so closer to the receiver.

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Thanks, I will see what I can find, or uncover without issues, if possible.

There is a very good chance this is not the original stock, - internal serial would confirm - but the crossbolt is not e/6 and they usually are by this range and the side sling slots do not seem existing, little evidence if any.

With sporters it is best to keep the stock but in this case it is less important I guess...

Loewe said:

There is a very good chance this is not the original stock, - internal serial would confirm - but the crossbolt is not e/6 and they usually are by this range and the side sling slots do not seem existing, little evidence if any.

With sporters it is best to keep the stock but in this case it is less important I guess...

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I like to hang onto sporter stocks if for no other reason than having some appropriate (e.g. beach, oak, etc) ~100 year old wood you don't really care about can be very, very useful for repairs and the like.

If you've got space in your house for a safe full of rifles you probably have space to stack a few old sporter stocks in the corner.

Loewe said:

There is a very good chance this is not the original stock, - internal serial would confirm - but the crossbolt is not e/6 and they usually are by this range and the side sling slots do not seem existing, little evidence if any.

With sporters it is best to keep the stock but in this case it is less important I guess...

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I noticed that, as you mentioned, there were apparently no sling slots that were filled, as the grain pattern looks uninterrupted in that area, so unless the wood worker was a Magician, it never had the slots cut out. I am going to look at the serialized area closely within a couple days, and will post what I find out, if any numbers are able to be revealed.

If this were a e-block this would be less of a problem, but this early its a long shot, but 70%+ of 98b do not have original stocks, and that percentage is probably optimistic to say the least... there is far more unknown than known unless Wolfgang, Stephan, Georg or one other of our German collectors dig something up. That is this forums strength, our German based researchers!

Loewe said:

If this were a e-block this would be less of a problem, but this early its a long shot, but 70%+ of 98b do not have original stocks, and that percentage is probably optimistic to say the least... there is far more unknown than known unless Wolfgang, Stephan, Georg or one other of our German collectors dig something up. That is this forums strength, our German based researchers!

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Thanks to everyone here, I looked up the suggested reproduction stocks at Fox Military, and they look like the best option outside of the Holy Grail original, if found, so this is heavily under consideration, but now I am left to find Un-issued metal parts to go on one, should I go that route, and since having original parts with no serial numbers, as opposed to mismatched ones, seems like that may be the best way to go at this point. It looks like either way it will be a quest for the Parts Grail Indeed. I still have to look at my stock for a number, even though it may not be original without the sling cutout, just need to verify, in case it is found to be the correct number, then there would be additional insight/interest in figuring out why it has no sling cut, indeed. will post when I find out if the number is there asap.