Zeppelin5000
Senior Member
What are they? I see depot build K98s discussed often, but I never really read into what they are. Are they mainly reworks? Damaged rifles sent back for repairs?
What actually is a depot build rifle?
- Thread starter Zeppelin5000
- Start date
The depots did rework rifles that came back needing repairs that could not be done in the field, such as barrel replacement or other major damage/wear. After the invasion of the Soviet Union, the Germans found they needed many more rifles than were being produced. The depots actually built some complete rifles from new ordnance spare parts and/or some salvaged parts at times. Thus the difference in a depot rework vs. depot built rifle. These were mostly done in the 41-42 time frame.
Warrior1354
ax - hole
In layman's terms they're freaking awesome neat rifles that we as k98k collectors get them for maybe a third of the cost of a factory matching rifle lol!
Zeppelin5000
Senior Member
Got it! Sounds like I was in the right track. Thanks for the the info guys!
Warrior1354
ax - hole
You still want to be careful researching the depot reworks or assembled made rifles. A lot of times they don't sell at shows because most people are afraid of them when they see parts that have been renumbered or stuff that has been replaced they think it was done by Bubba or it's been faked. They're mainly for us as k98k collectors to get a cool rifle that actually saw combat, it was reworked, and sent back to action. But as I stated you can typically pick these up for one third the cost or less of a factory matching rifle. I've seen really nice and cool Depot rework or assembled rifles picked up for less than $1,200.
On a side note here is a couple pictures of my favorite Depot rifles from my collection.
On a side note here is a couple pictures of my favorite Depot rifles from my collection.
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Zeppelin5000
Senior Member
Awesome! The question just popped into my mind after reading some posts. I was just unsure what was meant by “depot”, but from the information I gathered, I came to the conclusion they were reworked rifles. I’ll have to be on the lookout! If I were to ever find something, reset assured I’d post it here lol.
internet troll
Troll
Good thread here, especially for K98 novices like myself. So for the beginning collector, what boldly signifies a depot rebuild? (You know, the way electro pencil and x receiver marks a RC). I ask because this seems like a real easy way to try and pass of a non matching parts gun off as a 'real German depot rebuild due to war damage'.......
Humbarger
Senior Member
Its an important distinction - depot build vs. depot repair. I consider myself quite good at figuring out what is good vs. what is not on reworked K98k rifles. First and foremost, most depot repaired guns got marked by the depot doing the work. As with other stampings, you have to know how to spot forgeries. It would be easy enough to "make" a mismatched gun into a rework, but not so easy to make it right. I've seen rifles with renumbered parts and fake depot marks, some even good - but like everything, if you study enough of them you notice patterns and practices by each depot. A lot of renumbering isn't done correctly, as it is on other hump jobs. A lot of collectors that get interested in reworks do so because they are proficient at spotting fakery on normal production guns, so in order to stay interested they branch out. Once you begin to appreciate a K98k with combat character (meaning wear and tear), the depot guns are the next big thing to collect. If a K98k has a new barrel installed, damage repaired to stocks, metal, etc, you know it saw some combat type use and didn't sit in a rack. That is appealing.
Here is a depot repaired bnz41, repaired at Posen depot. This gun most likely saw combat on the eastern front and was returned and rebuilt. If you don't know what you are looking at, it could be confusing. Barrel has 0,2 marking which signified this was an unfitted barrel, chamber is 0,2mm short for final chamber reaming after installation (for headspace). Barrel replacement was forbidden by field units by decree. Stock is reused from another rifle, bolt was ground of serial but the suffix remained, new serial added. A new collector would have a fit trying to justify this alone.
Here is a depot repaired bnz41, repaired at Posen depot. This gun most likely saw combat on the eastern front and was returned and rebuilt. If you don't know what you are looking at, it could be confusing. Barrel has 0,2 marking which signified this was an unfitted barrel, chamber is 0,2mm short for final chamber reaming after installation (for headspace). Barrel replacement was forbidden by field units by decree. Stock is reused from another rifle, bolt was ground of serial but the suffix remained, new serial added. A new collector would have a fit trying to justify this alone.
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Warrior1354
ax - hole
I for one 100% agree with what Mike has stated every Depot has their own pattern and unique quality. Before you tackle in the Depots as the k98k collector you really need to read the volume II book chapters on depots and reworks. Hell I spent many hours reading the volume one book just to learn about 98m reworks.
And here's another idea if you don't have the book on you snap a couple pictures of what a Depot stamp would look like, keep them in your phone, and if you run across one at the show look at the pattern. And remember you're a member here at this forum it has a great picture reference guide don't forget what information and knowledge you have available too you.
And don't forget many members here are willing to help out you guys as well.
And here's another idea if you don't have the book on you snap a couple pictures of what a Depot stamp would look like, keep them in your phone, and if you run across one at the show look at the pattern. And remember you're a member here at this forum it has a great picture reference guide don't forget what information and knowledge you have available too you.
And don't forget many members here are willing to help out you guys as well.
Electro pencil marks are normally a red flag, but you have to be careful because they are common on sszza4 stamped depot builds.
Zeppelin5000
Senior Member
Great info here, especially from Farb! Lol, I feel like I'm just getting good at identifying normal factory K98s from hump jobs, captures, fakes, etc. Depot guns are a whole other world. I'll need to dive into my books!
Yes, but there are legitimate electro pencilled markings on some depot guns, specifically Magdeburg. But, there is a way to differentiate original ep'd parts vs. newly done fakes.
Yes, but these are somewhat rarely encountered, correct?
Do tell us how you can tell faked electro etchings, because It's quite possible to obtain the same electro etcher that was used during the 3rd Reich. So this would be great info to share.
I have great respect for your knowledge and participation.
Do tell us how you can tell faked electro etchings, because It's quite possible to obtain the same electro etcher that was used during the 3rd Reich. So this would be great info to share.
I have great respect for your knowledge and participation.
Yes, but these are somewhat rarely encountered, correct?
Do tell us how you can tell faked electro etchings, because It's quite possible to obtain the same electro etcher that was used during the 3rd Reich. So this would be great info to share.
I have great respect for your knowledge and participation.
Its not that easy to get the same electro arc pencil tools used during WW2, the type used today are made different (fakers rarely get all the tools right anyway). I've looked, the process used then is different than the type used today, they were way more dangerous to use as they used electric arc instead of a sharp tip. Of course you could work it out and make one that works the same, but then you'd have to make sure to use it on the correct parts. Magdeburg used it more on Beutewaffen and less on K98k rifles, but sometimes you find small bolt parts numbered this way on K98k rifles - never bolt handles, triggerguards, etc like the Russian guns. I have seen plenty of fake "depot" repaired rifles with the wrong electro pencil marks that are commonly available, and it's a different tool. It's especially obvious on the fake SSZZA4 guns when someone uses an EP tool vs. an EAP tool.
Farb,
It took me 3 minutes to find the arc etching tool on line at MSC tool, costs $500. Not the tool for your everyday humper though.
You're correct that the markings from this tool under magnification have a look similar to the bead from an arc welder, a totally different appearance from that of the vibra graver.
I remember having a 7.92 converted Volks Carcano that had the bolt numbered in this way, wish I still had it.
It makes perfect sense to use this etcher on parts that are too hard to use number punches on.
Zeppelin5000
Senior Member
I'd guess one way to tell Russian from German electropenciling would be fonts, the differences between the two handwriting styles. Everyone has different handwriting of course, but there can be variations from different regions of the world. For example, here is my G43. The 1 engraved here is the way a German would make a 1. I don't believe Russians do it this way. For me, that's the only number I can point out haha. But it's a for sure sign in my opinion.
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Albertgt40
Member
Hi all, sorry for digging up an old thread and if my question is in the wrong place. Would anyone happen to know if my new to me bcd 4 k98k is a depot rifle? Seems odd not to have a front sight hood being a 44, but maybe it was a Russian rebuild? Thanks for any answers or history on my gun!
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More photos of your rifle? Your rifles finish looks like it could be a russian capture but the barrel and sights may have been replaced during the war by the germans. They didnt always replace front sight bases with ones that were slotted for a sight hood. My BCD 41 is not slotted for a sight hood as its a depot build and they just used what they had.
This, we definitely need more photos.
