Wartime pictures of StG family of rifles
- Thread starter Colonelhogan
- Start date
M45
Well-known member
Good analysis. While doing some checking on standard US infantry rifles of the last century, I find the M1903 Springfield bolt action rifle was in use from 1903-1936. The M1 Garand auto loader was used from roughly 1936-1957. The M14 auto loader was used from roughly 1957-1967. The M16 in various forms was used from 1967- present day.
As Americans, I think we have come to expect we should get the best of everything, military equipment included. The M1 Garand was superior to the bolt action rifles used by the Axis. But then came the end of the war and seemingly a halt in research into advanced infantry weapons. Top military brass certainly had access to current German infantry weapons in use such as the STG44.
I recall that scene in the 1965 movie 'Battle of the Bulge' where Charles Bronson and James MacArthur bring in prisoners from a raid and are inspected by Dana Andrews (Col. Pritchard). The Col. thinks they have captured a Sunday School due to the young ages of the prisoners. Then he says, 'What's this?' while picking up an STG44. He opens the breach and says, 'Its never been fired! There's still grease in the barrel!'. The point being he has no clue that what he is holding in his hands is a highly advanced infantry weapon that would give a considerable edge to whomever used it. What is sad is that in reality our leaders seemed to have had no clue what an assault rifle was or what it could do until some 20 years later.
Then when the US did accept the M16, it was a direct impingement design with a small caliber.
In firearms, "direct impingement" refers to a system where the expanding gas from a fired cartridge directly pushes against the bolt carrier, while a "gas piston" system uses a separate piston to push against the bolt carrier, resulting in a cleaner operation but often with more moving parts and slightly heavier weight compared to direct impingement; most commonly seen in AR-15 style rifles, with direct impingement being the standard design and gas piston considered an upgrade for increased reliability and cleanliness. google search
Experiments with vice-mounted full auto M4s showed the gas tube igniting in flames after a number of clips were fired at full auto. The bolt was red hot. Much more prone to jam compared to a piston drive. The same experiment with a piston drive conversion and the bolt was removed and held in hand.
It makes me wonder if our leaders are really that F-ing stupid or are they conspirators.
HMG® Sturmgewehr: STG-N | Hill & Mac Gunworks
www.hmgunworks.com
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I think the whole Colt / AR thing was about corruption. We could have ended with a scaled down FAL in .280. That would basically have put us where we are now with 6.5 and 6.8. That system would have been superior to the AR in adverse conditions like Vietnam. Almost 60 years later the AR platform is OK, serviceable. The first AKs and AKMs are as serviceable today as they were 60 years ago.
biggymu
Well-known member
I’ve installed a piston kit on all my AR platform weapons. After 500 rounds the bolt looks squeaky clean. Why in Gods name would you design a weapon that needs a carbon scraper to clean the bolt and needs a tube of Break Free squeezed into it before a mission? That’s why most auto makers don’t run the exhaust through the passenger compartment. Poor design IMHOGood analysis. While doing some checking on standard US infantry rifles of the last century, I find the M1903 Springfield bolt action rifle was in use from 1903-1936. The M1 Garand auto loader was used from roughly 1936-1957. The M14 auto loader was used from roughly 1957-1967. The M16 in various forms was used from 1967- present day.
As Americans, I think we have come to expect we should get the best of everything, military equipment included. The M1 Garand was superior to the bolt action rifles used by the Axis. But then came the end of the war and seemingly a halt in research into advanced infantry weapons. Top military brass certainly had access to current German infantry weapons in use such as the STG44.
I recall that scene in the 1965 movie 'Battle of the Bulge' where Charles Bronson and James MacArthur bring in prisoners from a raid and are inspected by Dana Andrews (Col. Pritchard). The Col. thinks they have captured a Sunday School due to the young ages of the prisoners. Then he says, 'What's this?' while picking up an STG44. He opens the breach and says, 'Its never been fired! There's still grease in the barrel!'. The point being he has no clue that what he is holding in his hands is a highly advanced infantry weapon that would give a considerable edge to whomever used it. What is sad is that in reality our leaders seemed to have had no clue what an assault rifle was or what it could do until some 20 years later.
Then when the US did accept the M16, it was a direct impingement design with a small caliber.
In firearms, "direct impingement" refers to a system where the expanding gas from a fired cartridge directly pushes against the bolt carrier, while a "gas piston" system uses a separate piston to push against the bolt carrier, resulting in a cleaner operation but often with more moving parts and slightly heavier weight compared to direct impingement; most commonly seen in AR-15 style rifles, with direct impingement being the standard design and gas piston considered an upgrade for increased reliability and cleanliness. google search
Experiments with vice-mounted full auto M4s showed the gas tube igniting in flames after a number of clips were fired at full auto. The bolt was red hot. Much more prone to jam compared to a piston drive. The same experiment with a piston drive conversion and the bolt was removed and held in hand.
It makes me wonder if our leaders are really that F-ing stupid or are they conspirators.
HMG® Sturmgewehr: STG-N | Hill & Mac Gunworks
That pile of surrendered rifles seems to run the whole range of German infantry issue small arms, there even seems to be a G41W or G41M (only the muzzle is visible) and then even in the black and white photo you can tell which K98 was a mid too later VS early war and even wear on'em just by the bluing remaining! No Buetuwaffen visible tho.
Winchester Cowboy
Senior Member
Interesting pics, pretty good thread!
GunShow98k
Member
Oh man I would be grabbing all of them and ship them home! Of interesting note is practically all of them are missing there cleaning rod rods except the one visible SVT40. Do I see a Mosin with a tall Finish style front sight??? Based on the metal finish wear from the front of the rifle compared too it's bolt it appears the bolt on that Mosin 91/30 is blued! Very neat.
Is there any Mosin or SVT40's running about in Norway today that may have been from the occupation?
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Awesome photos! It seems that in the far left of the first photo just based on overall length it appears that infantryman is armed with a Gewehr 98m and then in the 3rd photo 2nd from left farthest back, he too is also armed (based on length) a Gewehr 98m as well!
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GunShow98k
Member
I like this picture in terms of captured/ surrendered weapons. No STG's(that I can see). The tuuck is carrying a ton of M1 carbines and theres a guy on the left grabbing a sten but the guy on the truck holds an SVT! Maybe Lend-Lease for the russians or this group seen both frounts?
Hard to say, I imagine tho this is on the western front, I recall a video on YouTube from Forgotten weapons talking with a long time collector about M1 carbines and a Belgian farmer had his farm fields used to hold POWs for the German first then Americans next. The farmer noted that the Germans grabbed all of the M1 carbines there was to be had but when it was the amercians turn for that farmer fileds all the American troops grabbed every pistol they could find. Based on a photo of glider pilots being brought on ship by a higgins boat not long after D-day and a SVT40 was in that higgins boat as a trophy I imagine Russian rifles went west but western made small arms stayed on the western front.
Colonelhogan
Well-known member
GunShow98k
Member
CRH113
Senior Member
A G41W as well! Hope those all got brought home!
Colonelhogan
Well-known member
