Just arrived. Israeli semi Kriegsmodell
- Thread starter MSB629
- Start date
Muncher 1953
Senior Member
from your last paragraph above, use google to help you see how it got that way. try and keep an open mind, as you seem to have some preconceptions. let the rifle tell you what it is, the evidence is there for you to discover………
MSB629
Well-known member
Yup, my first take was that the rifle was a Israeli semi Kriegsmodell. I'm new to the K98k world. Stan brought me up to speed regarding what it is and why. I took to the net & found an article which laid out where & when Israel acquired its rifles (no surprise that Stan nailed it). What I have is a FN model 1930.
I'm still not sure how the rifle stock has features of a semi Kriegsmodell. As you suggest I'm trying to understand why the stock has these features. I think it's a great rifle and I'm happy to have it. Just trying to figure out what path it took getting to Isreal. The knowledge-base ya'll have is impressive - my knowledge? Not so much.
I'm still not sure how the rifle stock has features of a semi Kriegsmodell. As you suggest I'm trying to understand why the stock has these features. I think it's a great rifle and I'm happy to have it. Just trying to figure out what path it took getting to Isreal. The knowledge-base ya'll have is impressive - my knowledge? Not so much.
moconfed
Senior Member
You're more likely to get help if you do some reading and research yourself, then report back, rather than asking questions and expecting everyone else to do your research for you.
MSB629
Well-known member
Embarrassed to say I did research. Questions started in response to my using the info I had & making an incorrect statement.
Sorry for wasting ya'lls time
All good, bruh! I turned up some interesting facts about FN’s immediate post-war K98 building activities a few years ago while researching a K98 I found which turned out to be an FN force-matched rifle issued to the BGS. See here (and read till the end): https://www.k98kforum.com/threads/bgs-issue-k98.21710/
mos
MSB629
Well-known member
Thx mos. My stock has 1 stamp on it. An "M" ~ 1" in front of the floorplate. My dot 1944 is also a semi Kriegsmodell has the same 'M' but placed in the sling slot.
I dug up some references which indicate it's a post war rifle assembled from stocks & anything they could find. Later in its life FN replaced barrel & reciever. Just can't reconcile a new build with takedown disk and drill thru the stockplate (curious if it was every used by the Frontline troops)
It also has the the drilled hole under the bayonet for the cleaning rod but no corresponding hole drilled for the cleaning rod. I also recall a forum member saying that FN didn't make stocks, primarily barrels, recieverd >
I dug up some references which indicate it's a post war rifle assembled from stocks & anything they could find. Later in its life FN replaced barrel & reciever. Just can't reconcile a new build with takedown disk and drill thru the stockplate (curious if it was every used by the Frontline troops)
It also has the the drilled hole under the bayonet for the cleaning rod but no corresponding hole drilled for the cleaning rod. I also recall a forum member saying that FN didn't make stocks, primarily barrels, recieverd >
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pzjgr
EOD - bombs and bullets
It is not a wartime manufactured semi kriegsmodell stock, it has a completely different band spring set up than a 98k stock, it is not routed for a full band spring...the stock was not make for a German 98k, it's a post war stock for an Israeli FN contract....
And why do you keep mentioning "takedown disc" that stock doesn't have a take down disc on it, so it's not relevant to this stock...
And why do you keep mentioning "takedown disc" that stock doesn't have a take down disc on it, so it's not relevant to this stock...
pzjgr
EOD - bombs and bullets
An Official Journal Of The NRA | FN Mausers And The Fight For Israel
When Israel declared its independence in 1948, it acquired rifles—including some used by the Germans during World War II—from any source it could find. New Mausers made at FN saw service in the Israeli War of Independence, and on through the Six-Day War.
Here's an article, group picture, 2 rifle from top, 1050s produced FN contract, short band spring, hole in toe of butt, no takedown disc...and it has the same rear band as yours with the swivel, not fixed loop like a 98k...
Yours is simply a 1950s Israeli FN contract rifle, fully made post war by FN in Belgium...
MSB629
Well-known member
I know it's front bands are postwar. Thought I mentioned it
Regarding takedown disks it's obvious the takedown disk isn't there. However it does have the hole drilled thru the metal buttplate, which is common with semi Kriegsmodell as is the hole drilled under the bayonet lug without the corresponding hole in the wood for the cleaning rod. I also mentioned the front.bands
I recall input saying to follow the clues the rifle is telling me. Also recall being told FN didn't make rifles. Primarily made barrels and other metal components. If FN did build this rifle find it hard to believe they would drill the bolt take down hole in the metal buttplate.
I didn't intend to ruffle feathers
Apologize if I did. I have no skin in the game. This is a superb rifle & don't give a hoot if it's an FN or German made stock. I'm only interested in how this rifle in how it came to have these distinctly semi Kriegsmodell features
Regarding takedown disks it's obvious the takedown disk isn't there. However it does have the hole drilled thru the metal buttplate, which is common with semi Kriegsmodell as is the hole drilled under the bayonet lug without the corresponding hole in the wood for the cleaning rod. I also mentioned the front.bands
I recall input saying to follow the clues the rifle is telling me. Also recall being told FN didn't make rifles. Primarily made barrels and other metal components. If FN did build this rifle find it hard to believe they would drill the bolt take down hole in the metal buttplate.
I didn't intend to ruffle feathers
Apologize if I did. I have no skin in the game. This is a superb rifle & don't give a hoot if it's an FN or German made stock. I'm only interested in how this rifle in how it came to have these distinctly semi Kriegsmodell features
pzjgr
EOD - bombs and bullets
Geez dude, they did not make complete 98k's during the war, they made a lot of complete Mauser action rifles pre war and post war. The article I linked shows exactly what one of their 1950s Israeli Contract rifles looked like, and were built as...exactly like yours.
Just do a Google search on fn Israeli contract rifles, all of them have no takedown disc, and the late war style hole in toe takedown drilled through the buttplate, I don't understand what is so difficult to grasp...
Just do a Google search on fn Israeli contract rifles, all of them have no takedown disc, and the late war style hole in toe takedown drilled through the buttplate, I don't understand what is so difficult to grasp...
MSB629
Well-known member
MSB629
Well-known member
I'm new to K98k's. I don't know what don't know. Learning about all aspects of them gonna take a while
Didn't think my attempt to learn would merit a 'geez dude' or a "what's so hard to grasp"
Thought this site would help me learn. Used the net heavily but came up with bunk. Being new to K98k's I never would have come up with the search you recommended. I'll take a look at it
Didn't think my attempt to learn would merit a 'geez dude' or a "what's so hard to grasp"
Thought this site would help me learn. Used the net heavily but came up with bunk. Being new to K98k's I never would have come up with the search you recommended. I'll take a look at it
MSB629
Well-known member
Thanks for the link. Yup they have all the features of mine.[UR
An Official Journal Of The NRA | FN Mausers And The Fight For Israel
When Israel declared its independence in 1948, it acquired rifles—including some used by the Germans during World War II—from any source it could find. New Mausers made at FN saw service in the Israeli War of Independence, and on through the Six-Day War.www.americanrifleman.org
Here's an article, group picture, 2 rifle from top, 1050s produced FN contract, short band spring, hole in toe of butt, no takedown disc...and it has the same rear band as yours with the swivel, not fixed loop like a 98k...
Yours is simply a 1950s Israeli FN contract rifle, fully made post war by FN in Belgium...
L unfurl="true"]https://www.americanrifleman.org/content/fn-mausers-and-the-fight-for-israel[/URL]
Here's an article, group picture, 2 rifle from top, 1050s produced FN contract, short band spring, hole in toe of butt, no takedown disc...and it has the same rear band as yours with the swivel, not fixed loop like a 98k...
Yours is simply a 1950s Israeli FN contract rifle, fully made post war by FN in Belgium...
MSB629
Well-known member
I really am not intentionally meaning to exasperate you. Still have the same question regarding the hole in the buttplate &.the one under the bayonet hole in metal without corresponding hole drilled in the wood.
Seems to me that FN used at 2 parts made earlier towards the end of the war. Thru my own research I learned my rifle is an FN model 1930.
I Also put a link in which identified the 4 major Israeli rifle acquired. FN rifles were in the 3rd acquisition
Just trying to understand those 2 items. I this rifle is fantastic. I understand it's not a K98K. M
Seems to me that FN used at 2 parts made earlier towards the end of the war. Thru my own research I learned my rifle is an FN model 1930.
I Also put a link in which identified the 4 major Israeli rifle acquired. FN rifles were in the 3rd acquisition
Just trying to understand those 2 items. I this rifle is fantastic. I understand it's not a K98K. M
pzjgr
EOD - bombs and bullets
I really just don't understand what you can still have questions on...at least 3 people have explicitly explained this. That is the way they manufactured the stocks for the Israeli contract, period. They did not use left over parts on these contract rifles. Do you think they were incapable of drilling holes through the buttplate and toe of stock?
Here is another link to yet another Israeli contract Mauser, that looks exactly like yours, short band spring, not routed for full band spring, and disassembly hole in toe of butt...plus this in the original post...
"The stock is similar to a late-war Kreigsmodell stock with the bolt takedown disc missing and the hole moved to the buttplate. The bolt handle is turned at a slightly different angle, and the front sight hood is different. A moveable sling swivel was added to the rear band. There is also no hole for a cleaning rod in the stock."
So, no FN did not use any surplus or late war parts, your stock does not have any wartime made parts. They just carried over the design features from late war models into the new contract. These are not technically Model 1930's they just follow the pattern. The whole partnership and details between Israel and FN (and other arms suppliers of the time) are murky and shrouded in mystery...it was a lot of secretive, hush hush stuff going on. Including the US buying up surplus WWII aircraft and flying them clandestinely under cover of various foreign shell corporations to Israel...
Here is another link to yet another Israeli contract Mauser, that looks exactly like yours, short band spring, not routed for full band spring, and disassembly hole in toe of butt...plus this in the original post...
"The stock is similar to a late-war Kreigsmodell stock with the bolt takedown disc missing and the hole moved to the buttplate. The bolt handle is turned at a slightly different angle, and the front sight hood is different. A moveable sling swivel was added to the rear band. There is also no hole for a cleaning rod in the stock."
So, no FN did not use any surplus or late war parts, your stock does not have any wartime made parts. They just carried over the design features from late war models into the new contract. These are not technically Model 1930's they just follow the pattern. The whole partnership and details between Israel and FN (and other arms suppliers of the time) are murky and shrouded in mystery...it was a lot of secretive, hush hush stuff going on. Including the US buying up surplus WWII aircraft and flying them clandestinely under cover of various foreign shell corporations to Israel...
