K98k Cleaning Rods 12" - Original German? - Or Norwegian?

Hi guys,

I've accumulated a handful of these 12" K98k cleaning rods. Three to be exact, over the last few years. By themselves and with rifles.

They all measure 12", have a phosphate finish, aggressive step at the head. Not like the nicely tapered ones we usually see. They all fit well, with good threads.

I've read mixed consensus on the origin: some say they are Norwegian post war, some say they are "last ditch German".

Does it make sense that they could be Norwegian? Didn't Norway only keep the nice early, pre-war K98k's, while they discarded the later ones? Though of course, regarding them keeping the earlier K98k's could just be circumstances, with that's what they had in the country...

These rods are very roughly made, lathe marks, with a cheap finish. That just doesn't scream "Norwegian" quality. Since Norway seemed to prefer early K98k's right?

Another thing to consider: think of all those mint WWII German pistol holsters that came out of Eastern Europe. When the Iron Curtain Fell. Those are considered original German WWII production. Even though we didn't really see any of those manufactures till well after the war..

Could these also be made in Norway, while under German occupation?

What's everyone's thoughts? Post war, or original German?

Thanks for any comments,
-Danny

As far as I'm concerned, they are post war Norwegian rods. Also, that huge thread relief really weakens the rod in that area. Not to sure if that is even a phosphate finish on your rods. You get that type of finish when you sandblast the metal and blue on top of the rough finish. German phosphate is a light gray.

The key is in the head of the rod and not the thread relief. There are legit wartime rods with that thread relief. Learned that after many years of assuming the opposite.

Peter S said:

As far as I'm concerned, they are post war Norwegian rods. Also, that huge thread relief really weakens the rod in that area. Not to sure if that is even a phosphate finish on your rods. You get that type of finish when you sandblast the metal and blue on top of the rough finish. German phosphate is a light gray.

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Thanks for the thoughts. Not 100% sure on the finish. Imo it’s phosphate or parkerized.

bruce98k said:

The key is in the head of the rod and not the thread relief. There are legit wartime rods with that thread relief. Learned that after many years of assuming the opposite.

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That’s good info. Thanks for sharing Bruce. I think a few of my German marked rods have a relief cut.

Any thoughts on said rods? In first post?

I actually think the top rod is good.
Taper on head correct with the sloped interior cut.

bruce98k said:

I actually think the top rod is good.
Taper on head correct with the sloped interior cut.

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I didn’t even realize the slight taper on the top one. Wow, thanks for pointing that out! I’ll have to check my third one now.

bruce98k said:

There are legit wartime rods with that thread relief. Learned that after many years of assuming the opposite.

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That's interesting. Would you care to share how you came to that conclusion.

Will do...let me dig one out..

I took a closer look at the one with the “taper”. It’s actually not a taper. My photos make it look like it is. The rim is slightly tapered at only a few points. The rest is a straight shelf/ledge. It was my poor photos.

I’d always taken the hard step rods for post war as a rule. Norway makes sense

The slots on "Norwegian" rods are much closer to the edge of the barrel than German ones.
Also the taper is much steeper. I have pulled rods out and will add pictures this weekend.

I actually have two cleaning rods to compare that illustrate the differences pretty well. One of them, the LEFT rod in these pics, was bought as a “Norwegian” rod. The other one, the RIGHT one, is clearly an “Elite Diamant” rod by virtue of the tiny “i” marking. Note the differences in heads, the taper vs. step, and in the threads.

You can also see the machining marks in both rods, which are interesting from a manufacturing AND from an identification point of view.

This view shows the patch slots a little better.

Ok I am back to continue the discussion.
I have attached two images.
The detail of the thread pattern clearly shows that the offset was used on original rods, albeit a bit shorter than the "Norwegian" pattern.

The 2nd image shows the barrel of a known good rod with the supposed "Norwegian" rod on the right.
Outside of the threading difference, I see no negligible differences here.

The images posted by M1930A3 clearly show the difference in the barrel but the example I am presenting presents a different view.

Good stuff.

bruce98k said:

Ok I am back to continue the discussion.
I have attached two images.
The detail of the thread pattern clearly shows that the offset was used on original rods, albeit a bit shorter than the "Norwegian" pattern.

The 2nd image shows the barrel of a known good rod with the supposed "Norwegian" rod on the right.
Outside of the threading difference, I see no negligible differences here.

The images posted by M1930A3 clearly show the difference in the barrel but the example I am presenting presents a different view.

Good stuff.

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Good stuff Bruce! I think that theoretically if during the war you gave a Norwegian machinist an original German made cleaning rod and asked him to duplicate it out of steel rod stock, you could very well get what we are calling “Norwegian” cleaning rods. They are similar enough to be hard to differentiate at a glance. Do we know when or where the “Norwegian” rods were made?

I don't know where the association with those rods and Norway came from.
Basically it was hearsay at the time. I really don't know if we will ever figure out the real story so it's going to be an unresolved topic until period documentation is found.

I generally agree with the image posted by M1903 of the one rod with the very sharp shoulder.
I am comfortable classifying these as post war. As for the anomalous rod I posted I believe it could be a legit wartime variation.

If produced in Norway they would have been manufactured on an industrial scale, likely in the thousands considering the large numbers of K98ks left in country.

This is all great info. Thanks for the discussion guys.

To summarize Norwegian rods:

•Have a straight ledge/cliff, with very short barrel to said ledge

•Less/shorter amount of threads (bigger offset)

I still have to check my third “Norwegian” one. Glad that at least one of them is likely an original…

bruce98k said:

I don't know where the association with those rods and Norway came from.
Basically it was hearsay at the time. I really don't know if we will ever figure out the real story so it's going to be an unresolved topic until period documentation is found.

I generally agree with the image posted by M1903 of the one rod with the very sharp shoulder.
I am comfortable classifying these as post war. As for the anomalous rod I posted I believe it could be a legit wartime variation.

If produced in Norway they would have been manufactured on an industrial scale, likely in the thousands considering the large numbers of K98ks left in country.

Click to expand...

I have wondered about the need for more cleaning rods to fit out the guns left in Norway, as the guns left there should have already had one rod each. But also I think they would be pretty easy to manufacture.

The elimination of the taper from the shaft to the head would simplify machining, as a time saving step. (EDIT: see below) The differences in length of threaded bottom sections might give us some insight by trying to connect different rods together, because rods SHOULD connect securely with their equivalently produced ones. Rods with a shorter threaded end would likely connect with ANY OTHERS, but longer threaded ones might bottom out. I’ll experiment and take pics.

OR this is just too much speculation! But it’s fun isn’t it? We like unsolved mysteries here.

EDIT: both of them connect just fine into each other both ways. Both will screw all the way in until stopped by the shoulder on the rod above the threads. If anything the known German rod feels a bit more solid when screwed into the Norway rod, but it seems the threads are exactly alike and both work fine in either position.