Recently acquired S/243

[Frappy]

Hello, I recently picked up a 1938 S/243 model 98. Appears to be original with all numbers matching except the floor plate and has early stock with Weimar markings. Question is the lower barrel band has a sling swivel instead of the fixed attachment point on the side and the stock has a lower swivel as well. Is this correct? the stock does have the cut out for the sling buckle as well. I also noticed the front and lower barrel bands aren't numbered.

 

[bnz41john]

Love to see more photos. Specifically the buttstock, buttplate, bands and the rear sling swivel. Postwar reworked k98ks can have bottom mounted sling swivels like you see here. Specifically the "turkish" and hungarian reworked k98ks. Your k98k doesn't necessarily sound or look like one of those reworks.

 

[Frappy]

Love to see more photos. Specifically the buttstock, buttplate, bands and the rear sling swivel. Postwar reworked k98ks can have bottom mounted sling swivels like you see here. Specifically the "turkish" and hungarian reworked k98ks. Your k98k doesn't necessarily sound or look like one of those reworks.

Will post images in a few. I thought rework as well but what would be the chances of all numbers matching except the floor plate and an early Weimar marked, flat buttplate stock?

 

[bnz41john]

Actually pretty highly likely. Your triggerguard also does not match as I can see it has the hole for a sling swivel. K98ks did not have those.

 

[Frappy]

Will post images in a few. I thought rework as well but what would be the chances of all numbers matching except the floor plate and an early Weimar marked, flat buttplate stock?

 

[Frappy]

Actually pretty highly likely. Your triggerguard also does not match as I can see it has the hole for a sling swivel. K98ks did not have those.

The rifle is marked "MOD 98". Does this make a difference? I could not find an import mark on it either.

 

[Bigdibbs88]

The stock has been sanded and refinished

 

[Muncher 1953]

The rifle is marked "MOD 98". Does this make a difference? I could not find an import mark on it either.

it would make a difference if it WEREN’T marked “mod 98”, as that would be rare for the period (if exfactory that way) or would mean it had been removed by bubba or his friends.

 

[Frappy]

Actually pretty highly likely. Your triggerguard also does not match as I can see it has the hole for a sling swivel. K98ks did not have those.

I finally had a chance to go thru this rifle..... The trigger guard and floorplate match the receiver and barrel. #5741. Bolt matches but not the firing pin or collar. Didn't see numbers on the barrel bands or buttplate. Rear sight doesn't match.

 

[Cyrano4747]

Get pictures of all the numbers on the small parts if you can. The SN on the bolt parts, any visible markings, etc. That's pretty necessary for anyone to be able to tell you more.

The sling swivel on the stock is not original. My guess is a post-war user. I can't tell much from that pic of the front band, but if it has a swivel on the bottom then no, it's not correct for the gun either.

 

[Frappy]

Additional pictures. Thoughts or comments?

 

[Frappy]

Get pictures of all the numbers on the small parts if you can. The SN on the bolt parts, any visible markings, etc. That's pretty necessary for anyone to be able to tell you more.

The sling swivel on the stock is not original. My guess is a post-war user. I can't tell much from that pic of the front band, but if it has a swivel on the bottom then no, it's not correct for the gun either.

Just added pictures.

 

[Cyrano4747]

Bolt has been renumbered. Bolt body, bolt shroud, and safety at the least. To my eye it doesn't look like depot work, although I'm not the expert on those. I'm going to say that was done later on by someone else, but I'll defer to anyone more knowledgeable.

Stock is a replacement, but was at least numbered to match. That looks consistent with an arsenal replacement, although again I'll defer to the people here who really know arsenal overhauls.

Small parts on the bolt (cocking piece, firing pin) don't match.

I don't know who put that SN on the inside of the floorplate, but it wasn't the Germans. It should be on the outside and centered vertically for them. I don't know if this was a post-war user (e.g. another military) or just an idiot who didn't know better.

I'm not a fan of the trigger guard. Numbers don't look quite right to me and it doesn't look like it has the inspection marks a pre-war Borsigwalde should have. That said the numbers don't look quite as "Harbor freight punch set" as the bolt numbers so I'll recognize the possibility it could be an armorer replacement, perhaps when the stock was done. Again, I'll defer to the people here who really know armorer/depot overhauled guns.

Barrel bands should be numbered to match the gun. They're not. On the plus side at least they're not badly renumbered. Again, perhaps a depot replacement? Don't know, I won't weigh in on that. But the sling arrangement isn't right and I doubt that would have been done as part of WW2 era depot work.

How much are you into this gun? If it was sold to you as all matching I'd try and get my money back if you can. If you bought it for shooter prices, though, you might be doing fine.

Here's what a prewar S/243 should look like. A year earlier but still representative re: things like how the bolt numbering should look from that factory.

s/243, 1937, F block

New set of pics of one of my favorites. A bit salty for sure. Plus, someone in it's history didn't quite understand the lock screw concept:

www.k98kforum.com

 

[Frappy]

Bolt has been renumbered. Bolt body, bolt shroud, and safety at the least. That numbering does not look like any arsenal renumber job I've ever seen, although I'm not the expert on those. I'm going to say that was done later on by someone else, but I'll defer to anyone more knowledgeable. I have no idea what's going on with the numbers(?) and proof mark(?) on the under-side of the bolt handle, although I can say they're not original. Was the gun privately owned in Europe at any point? I'm half wondering if it had to be re-proofed when the bolt was replaced.

Stock is a replacement, but was at least numbered to match. That looks consistent with it an arsenal replacement, although again I'll defer to the people here who really know arsenal overhauls.

Small parts on the bolt (cocking piece, firing pin) don't match.

I don't know who put that SN on the inside of the floorplate, but it wasn't the Germans. It should be on the outside and centered vertically for them. I don't know if this was a post-war user (e.g. another military) or just an idiot who didn't know better.

I'm not a fan of the trigger guard. Numbers don't look quite right to me and it doesn't look like it has the inspection marks a pre-war Borsigwalde should have. That said the numbers don't look quite as "Harbor freight punch set" as the bolt numbers so I'll recognize the possibility it could be an armorer replacement, perhaps when the stock was done. Again, I'll defer to the people here who really know armorer/depot overhauled guns.

Barrel bands should be numbered to match the gun. They're not. On the plus side at least they're not badly renumbered. Again, perhaps a depot replacement? Don't know, I won't weigh in on that. But the sling arrangement isn't right and I doubt that would have been done as part of WW2 era depot work.

How much are you into this gun? If it was sold to you as all matching I'd try and get my money back if you can. If you bought it for shooter prices, though, you might be doing fine.

Here's what a prewar S/243 should look like. A year earlier but still representative re: things like how the bolt numbering should look from that factory.

s/243, 1937, F block

New set of pics of one of my favorites. A bit salty for sure. Plus, someone in it's history didn't quite understand the lock screw concept:

www.k98kforum.com

I picked it up at an auction. Minimum bid wasn't realized and I made a low offer later on that was accepted. I knew it wasn't %100 matching but the barrel and receiver are and have original finish. the bore is just about mint. Lower barrel band has an acceptance stamp but no signs of any numbers, even under a magnifying glass. If the trigger guard was renumbered I see no signs of a previous number. Same for the number on the bolt. Debating on finding an original sling and barrel band to convert back to as issued.

 

[Cyrano4747]

I picked it up at an auction. Minimum bid wasn't realized and I made a low offer later on that was accepted. I knew it wasn't %100 matching but the barrel and receiver are and have original finish. the bore is just about mint. Lower barrel band has an acceptance stamp but no signs of any numbers, even under a magnifying glass. If the trigger guard was renumbered I see no signs of a previous number. Same for the number on the bolt. Debating on finding an original sling and barrel band to convert back to as issued.

The numbers on the TG and bolt aren't there because they were ground off by whoever renumbered the parts.

Look at the shape of the numbered areas on those parts and look at the same spot on other guns and you'll see what I mean.

I'm not an expert on depot reworked guns, and I'll absolutely defer if any of the guys here who really know them correct me, but the work just doesn't look right for depot work (except maybe the stock renumbering as mentioned earlier). The bolt in particular doesn't look right, especially the bolt root. I don't think I've ever seen a Third Reich era K98k where the bolt was numbered vertically, rather than horizontally so that the number ran parallel to the bore. That is the big thing leaping out to me. There are other issues, too. The font on those bolt parts doesn't' look right.

Here's a gun that was reworked by at least two depots, including having the bolt renumbered. Compare it to yours and you should notice the differences.

Luft/Heer double depot rework

This is a very unique 243 1940 i block that been reworked by both the Luftwaffe and the Army. It shows repairs by both LZA2 and HZa Posen, and it is pretty difficult to sort out who did what. It looks like LZA2 was probably first with a new GeCo barrel, and the Posen rework came later with a...

www.k98kforum.com

If you got it for less than $1000 I'd say good on your and enjoy it as a shooter. I'm not trying to crap on your gun, I'm sure it will make a great representative example and a shooter. But that bolt isn't matching.

edit: and as mentioned up-thread, you have the wrong kind of TG on that. You shouldn't have that hole for the WW1-style sling attachment.

 

[Cyrano4747]

What's the WaA code on the underside of the bolt root? Looks like it might be WaA77? That will tell you who made the bolt.

edit: looks like the markings on the under side of the bolt handle would be right for a bolt body made by Radom and finished by Steyr, and the WaA77's look to be placed right. So Radom/Steyr bolt.

example one on a Steyr gun:

bnz41

I have bnz 41 #1752a. The rifle has a duffle -cut laminated stock made by stock Waffenfabrik Brunn ("dot"). It is all-matching including the cleaning rod. It has little evidence of use. I recently took some 200+ photos of the parts and was very surprised at the number which were E/77. The...

www.k98kforum.com