Another K98 Example - Depot BCD 41 sn. 4276

[36thDivisionArchive]

Hey y'all,

I've been a militaria collector for a good while but only recently acquired my first wartime K98, which I've wanted for quite awhile. Came across this one at a local show from an old collector downsizing his collection.

After looking through some of the threads on this forum and elsewhere, it seems that this one is another depot build example from the Mainz-Kastel Depot (XII). I'm still learning a lot about the rifle, so I would greatly appreciate any additional insight or history as to the gun.

The receiver is a 1941 Gustolff-Werke (bcd) and the rifle's serial number on this one falls into the known range, sitting at 4276, and is almost all matching. The full serial is stamped on the front band and a "76" is present on the under side of the bolt, receiver, bolt stop, and trigger assembly. The floor plate seems to be a replacement marked 4992 as well as the rear band, which is marked 17 and 06.

As far as WaA go, there are a couple present. The bolt stop, barrel, and rear site appear to have WaA 26 while the bolt and floor plate have WaA 214. WaA 37 is on the trigger assembly.

The barrel also seems to match other depot rifles I could find online, an ordnance spare notated 0,2 7.9 with 60 41 BYS above it.

I could not find any stamping on the stock, which seems to be a trend with these, except what appears to be some sort of cartouche on the bottom of the butt.

The receiver also appears to have filled holes from a scope mount at some point. Whoever did it did a great job, they are only barely noticeable due to the slightly different discoloration.

Curious to know your thoughts and learn more about the gun. The older gentleman said it was a bringback from a GI but didn't have any other info about it. I thought the XII looked interesting and saw the mostly matching parts and, with the price he gave me, I figured it was worth the buy. I was not aware of the story of the depot guns until I started researching when I got home and was quite interested to learn about them! I am curious if anyone knows whether these were mostly all sent eastward or if they were probably issued to units in their respective Wehrkreis. XII is about as far from the Eastern Front as you can get so I was wondering if we knew anything about where they ended up.

 

[36thDivisionArchive]

 

[Bob in OHIO]

Well, what can I say… parts, post war filling of drilled receiver holes, and a stock with extra non-German cross lugs.

The original build would be a neat gun, but the current configuration is far from original & not a GI bring back.

Above is IMO, only

A pic of the bolt numbering would be interesting.

 

[nirvana]

This is an absolute turd. Get your money back if you can. I’m familiar with your uniform collection. Respectfully: I would step back from German rifles until you do a great deal more research. This is a ruined example - a very bad one - and getting burnt like this can set you back a few thousand.

 

[36thDivisionArchive]

This is an absolute turd. Get your money back if you can. I’m familiar with your uniform collection. Respectfully: I would step back from German rifles until you do a great deal more research. This is a ruined example - a very bad one - and getting burnt like this can set you back a few thousand.

Hey there, could you elaborate on it? What about the stampings don't add up? I am here to learn as well!

 

[nirvana]

You have a restored sporter. At some point, someone took the military condition rifle and set it up with a scope. It was drilled, tapped, etc. Then - some years later - someone took that drilled action and rebuilt it into something resembling its military configuration. The replacement parts are of generally poor quality, and show evidence of poor installation. The stock in particular has been heavily refinished, and has had extra cross bolts installed postwar to either prevent (or repair) cracks in the wood. There just isn’t much here, it’s a collection of random parts assembled recently into this. I suspect it was an attempt to deceive an unwary buyer, but one can never be sure there. The barrel, receiver, and magazine housing are probably the only remaining original parts. Nothing else looks factory.

 

[mrfarb]

For the right price, any shootable 98k has value. This one really fits in non-collectible/shooter category with the drilled holes and such.

The serial number is actually 76, any 4 digit numbers that are close are coincidental or “restorer” parts shopping (most likely and I use that term loosely). Those with 76 like trigger guard are likely original.

This was a sporter action some one built back up. Bolt numbering isn’t typical German or even depot, so that is suspect. The XII is the original depot marking.

 

[36thDivisionArchive]

You have a restored sporter. At some point, someone took the military condition rifle and set it up with a scope. It was drilled, tapped, etc. Then - some years later - someone took that drilled action and rebuilt it into something resembling its military configuration. The replacement parts are of generally poor quality, and show evidence of poor installation. The stock in particular has been heavily refinished, and has had extra cross bolts installed postwar to either prevent (or repair) cracks in the wood. There just isn’t much here, it’s a collection of random parts assembled recently into this.

Thanks for the details mrfarb and nirvana. I got it for a not-premium shooter price, and didn't expect anything crazy from it, just noticed the depot marking and number of matching parts that I thought were worth taking it. I do plan to use it as a shooter so I didn't want to buy anything I'd feel unsafe taking down from the wall.

Appreciate the insight on the stock, can see all that now with the bolts and former scope mount the story there. Looking at the bolt again under much brighter light, I think it's actually just some other sort of stamping, maybe half of an X, that looked like the bottom half of the number here in my office.

 

[Amateur_Gardener]

You've already received feedback from, literally, some of the world's foremost K98k experts so I won't comment on the condition or originality of the rifle except to say that it does appear to have been hacked about a bit in various places.

Many collectors have started with a bumpy first acquisition, so you're in numerous company and that's fine.

The bring back narrative from the seller sounds unfortunate, and it's up to you whether you want to have that conversation with them.

I do think there's room is most cabinets for a dedicated shooter that you don't have to worry about too much. If you aren't that familiar with shooting 8x57, and provided it all looks safe, this is a great opportunity to get some extensive range time and get comfortable with the quirks of the model and find a way to shoot that is comfortable and doesn't leave you with a big, yellow bruise on your shoulder after every 25 or so rounds. Even it's just the receiver, a low serial number depot build 'core' might give you a grin at the range every so often, even the rest of it isn't as it was when it left the depot.

What's the bore like?

Best, AG

 

[Stephan98k]

I was not aware of the story of the depot guns until I started researching when I got home and was quite interested to learn about them! I am curious if anyone knows whether these were mostly all sent eastward or if they were probably issued to units in their respective Wehrkreis. XII is about as far from the Eastern Front as you can get so I was wondering if we knew anything about where they ended up.

Very good answers have already been given, so I will concentrate on this part and try to give you an answer.

This rifle has the lowest serial number known to me of these Mainz Depot Build K98ks, the highest Wehrkreis XII serial number which I know is 6577.

These Depot Build K98ks were not intended for use in their military districts; they were sent to the Fz.In. like new factory assembled K98k and was issued to the troops. Of course it is not possible to say exactly where they were used, but the probability is high that they went to the Eastern Front during this time frame.

Your K98k is an early rifle and was certainly assembled in March 1943, at the latest in April 1943.

Now you have a shooter with some history, even Reich Minister Albert Speer mentioned the effort to make these rifles in a speech at the Sportpalast in Berlin in June 1943.

 

[THunter]

This rifle has the lowest serial number known to me of these Mainz Depot Build K98ks, the highest Wehrkreis XII serial number which I know is 6577

I have a matching bcd 41 depot build with its serial number being ‘910’ however it lacks any kind of roman numeral district marking on the receiver. I dont know if some of these simply weren’t assigned to any particular district and just thrown into the supply chain after being built like mine. Ill have to post it up on here soon to get everyones opinions.

 

[Honkey Tonk Devil]

This is on Gunbroker now. Unfortunate there were some details left out. Just my opinion.

 

[Cyrano4747]

lmao he took Stephen98k's comment about the SN verbatim for his ad copy.

Gotta love it when this shite happens, really makes you not want to comment on stuff.

 

[36thDivisionArchive]

Hey you all, I really appreciate all the comments I got on here, as it was a great wake up call for me to really learn more about these rifles than I had thought. I'm glad I got to learn from my mistakes and, as you imagine, was a bit dissapointed and thus decided to try and pass it along as I wait for something nicer (I've been reading through threads and articles quite a bit since first posting to grow my understanding).

As for the serial number comment, I had looked through numerous forums and thus knew the range of serials for these and the general story of their creation before posting on here, so the simple confirmation that it was only "76" and not "4276" was just some clarity for me, and I figured worth passing along for any depot-interested people who might want it. Also described the parts which did match in the description and, based on the strong reactions I got on here, assumed things like the stock and other pieces were obvious replacements from the photos I included and reference.

I definitely learned from the process, and look forward to doing better down the road with more knowledge in my pocket. Really am thankful for all the help I've been able to glean from this forum and others. If it doesn't sell, Ill be fine keeping it as a shooter, but if I can recoup to invest in a better piece I would be happy.

 

[Honkey Tonk Devil]

I'm glad I got to learn from my mistakes and, as you imagine, was a bit dissapointed and thus decided to try and pass it along as I wait for something nicer

Glad ya too.
I'm not here to police anything but when I notice something we'll let me quote Nirvana.
". I suspect it was an attempt to deceive an unwary buyer, but one can never be sure there. "
I think it's "unfortunate" you didn't mention the receiver being drilled and tapped. In your description. That's all especially when you mentioned it above.

 

[nirvana]

This is on Gunbroker now. Unfortunate there were some details left out. Just my opinion.

 

[Jakeman664]

Still hasn't been edited to mention the fact it was drilled and tapped for a scope and post war modified stock. When are you planning on adding that?

 

[36thDivisionArchive]

Glad ya too.
I'm not here to police anything but when I notice something we'll let me quote Nirvana.
". I suspect it was an attempt to deceive an unwary buyer, but one can never be sure there. "
I think it's "unfortunate" you didn't mention the receiver being drilled and tapped. In your description. That's all especially when you mentioned it above.

Haha fair point. I guess I assumed based on how easily it was torn apart on here that I was the odd one out when it came to seeing blatant problems like that. I went through and added a note about the repaired and added parts and encouraged folks to look at the photos for the best description.

And thanks for the reminder Jake, unfortunately I do work and can't edit my listings all day lol.

 

[swede1894]

The stock has also been notched out for a non-original bent bolt handle and the recoil lug looks to have some pretty significant set-back.