Unused BCD 4 ZF41rifle with matching case incl. brush, cloth and bakelite cup with spare parts

[wo2junk]

Hello, first post from me (German gun collector)

I hereby post some pictures of my BCD 4 ZF41 rifle incl. matching case.

The question I have : does anybody know if this is a complete case or does it miss anything? and was it usual to have both the scope no. as-well as the rifle no. on the case?

I can only post 15 pics, so I"ll post the matching rifle later.

JP

 

[mrfarb]

Well, 1 problem is bcd didn’t make zf41 scoped rifles so…. But also, I’ve never seen scope number on a can. Also, not a fan of that number on the box with odd ochre colored paint covering the are a serial would be. Let’s see the rifle.

 

[wo2junk]

Here the pics of the rifle.

 

[Absolut]

Originally wanted to express the same as @mrfarb , but had wanted to see pictures of the rifle first. It appears to me as if the ZF41 rail on your rifle is not a solid part of the rear sight base, but soldered on. Any chances that you could take off the ZF41 scope and post a picture of the rail by then? It might be the picture, but it appears the alignment of the barrel axis and optical axis isn't parallel either, as if the rail was facing lightly upwards towards the muzzle.

Secondly, the rifle serial on the scope case: that one is very unusual, this for various reasons:
1.) matching to a rifle was always twice done. Meaning if there is a rifle number on the scope case, then there is also always a rifle number on the mount either. And vica versa. Of course one could claim the scope mount had been mismatched to the scope can, but on the other hand then why is the scope serial number on the can?
2.) matching of mounts and cases to rifles happened up until very early 1944, almost all 44 and every 45 scope and case do not have a rifle number on them [disclaimer: except for the .22]
3.) the number on the scope case is very weird. Why is it painted yellow in this area? Why so extremely deep/hard punched that the metal looks actually bent? Why are there scratches on top? Could you post a better picture of the rifle serial in this place? There might had been previous markings being removed and painted over yellow.

Finally, there are very certain receiver codes and years known for producting rifles with ZF41 rail. These are very few and highly consistant. You maybe also read members @mdarnell19 's website on ZF41: https://www.wwiigermansniper.com/zf-41 . To summarize though, there are no bcd coded ZF41 rifles, of no year.

 

[Nigromontanus]

Well, 1 problem is bcd didn’t make zf41 scoped rifles so….

 

[Absolut]

Possibly a bcd/ar @Nigromontanus ? Any chances of seeing the (hopefully remaining) proof stamps on barrel to identify maker of the barrel?

 

[wo2junk]

Absolut..thank you for your thorough reply.

Hereby the pictures of the mount. I'am not an expert put I can see the mount is not soldered on but milled together with the rear sight base.

 

[Absolut]

After these additional pictures I fully doubt your rifle. Note the "locking cut" for your rifle is milled fully through. Originals only have a semi circular cut in this area, see attached sample picture.

Additionally, one picture of yours, highlighted where I think one can see the solder line. I think someone used a solder on rail like this: https://www.kpemig.de/ZF41-Schiene-fuer-Visierhuelse-K98-Originalstueck- . They were quite popular some years back and sold often on eGun and other sites in Europe.

Finally, re the scope can: your pictures are very small sized, maybe you could upload them in a higher resolution? Note the scratches in the 3701 area? That is what I was wondering upon. Highlighted this in another pic of yours what I had hoped to be able to get to see.

 

[wo2junk]

Hereby another picture from underneath. Here you can clearly see it has been soldered on.

Case closed, thanks all for the quick response.

You win some, you loose some

 

[Absolut]

I am sorry to have been the bearer of bad news. For whoever though did your rifle, he put a lot of effort into doing it. As well as that overall it seems to be a very nice rifle and the parts by themselves already hold good value.

 

[pwcosol]

Regarding a Gustloff/BCD K98k with Zf-41, they do exist, but there is a caveat. One of the finest Zf-41s I ever saw was back in the 1980s and belonged to Morton Grey. It was a "dual-tone" bcd 4. However, Gustloff did not assemble the rifle as such. The serial number was , by range and font, Mauser O/aN. The acceptance marking was E | WaA135. The stock was a Gustloff one with "C", but bore WaA135 acceptance on the side. We have seen 1944/45 period Mauser K98ks with Gustloff bolts, stocks and some other components. I also know whom acquired this rifle from M.G. and when he got out of collecting, the next owner whom I believe still has it. Will make a inquiry to that effect. So yes...Gustloff never factory produced a Zf-41, but Mauser did with their help.

 

[biggymu]

This is an enlightening thread for me on several levels. Are the contents of the box (Clarinol cloth, brush) even authentic, as I noticed no comment on them. The spare parts container (?) looks to hold several ejector box screws. This was not issued with the can. Will the container even close with the scope in the container with shown assessories? Shown is one of mine, recently sold.

 

[wo2junk]

The container closes perfectly. I have no knowledge if the spare container is original, the only thing I can say that it is from bakelite and holds 3 larger screws and a complete plate set (plate incl. 2 smaller screws for fixing , see drawing on picture). The cloth and the brush seems to be original as well.

 

[mdarnell19]

Mrfarb's statement is still true. BCD never assembled Zf41s. But Mauser did using Astrawerke bcd 4 receivers.

 

[wo2junk]

Can I assume that there is still a posibility that the rifle is original or is that the wrong conclusion?

 

[Absolut]

People here were pointing out the fact that very rarely Mauser used a Astrawerke produced receiver which came with the bcd 4 code on it. And of those rare occasions where a factory used a receiver with a code from another manufacturer there seems to have been at least one encountered which leads to the result that a bcd 4 coded receiver was used for a ZF41 build by Mauser. To be able to verify if your rifle was assembled by Mauser (despite the bcd coded receiver) you'd need to do a detail inspection on the various Waffenamt acceptance stamps.

In your case it isn't helping because the ZF41 rail on your rifle is anyway a soldered on, as well as it is not the factory rail type. For what I understood this was posted for educational purpose, to point out, that in very rare cases the simple "receiver code verification" may not be applicable to a certain rifle.

 

[wo2junk]

Oke, I"ll leave it at that. Thanks again.