That thread about the well known....
- Thread starter Caesar1
- Start date
http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/280711-m2-of-lt-joseph-shelton-505th-pir/
That's the actual thread where everything went down. It starts getting interesting on the second page, post 45. Yes, there were people saying "let's wait for an explanation..." Right. lol.
That's the actual thread where everything went down. It starts getting interesting on the second page, post 45. Yes, there were people saying "let's wait for an explanation..." Right. lol.
Does anyone think this same situation has not played out in other areas of the hobby? Without the fortuity of a very observant collector or two this would be continuing in US helmet collecting. The desire for cool and "rare" militaria among some overwhelms common sense and healthy skepticism.
There were a lot of interesting things in that thread, as I recall. I'm not motivated enough to read all 40 pages (again), but these things stood out:
Deleted posts
People trying to make excuses for JKash ("let's wait for him to explain")
There were some people who were stunned that the "original" named helmet was fake
A lack of curiousty regarding the chain of ownership
The fact that the fake helmet was owned by the Gettysburg museum, and then owned by JKash, who KNEW it was fake. How did he know that? Was he in the prior chain of ownership, or did he know who was?
Some people seemed to be against posting photos of all of the helmets that JKash sold, because some might be real, and it would taint them.
The willingness of a collecting community to believe that one dealer could conjure up like 20 original painted airborne helmets
That the post was locked very early on, only to be opened up again after outcry.
That tons of these turds are still floating around and I've not seen one turn up for sale as a fake.
I won't insult the forum at large for what happened, the incident was handled fairly well over all, but those things above always puzzled me about the whole thing.
Deleted posts
People trying to make excuses for JKash ("let's wait for him to explain")
There were some people who were stunned that the "original" named helmet was fake
A lack of curiousty regarding the chain of ownership
The fact that the fake helmet was owned by the Gettysburg museum, and then owned by JKash, who KNEW it was fake. How did he know that? Was he in the prior chain of ownership, or did he know who was?
Some people seemed to be against posting photos of all of the helmets that JKash sold, because some might be real, and it would taint them.
The willingness of a collecting community to believe that one dealer could conjure up like 20 original painted airborne helmets
That the post was locked very early on, only to be opened up again after outcry.
That tons of these turds are still floating around and I've not seen one turn up for sale as a fake.
I won't insult the forum at large for what happened, the incident was handled fairly well over all, but those things above always puzzled me about the whole thing.
Excellent synopsis.
I agree it was good that it was exposed and some people got their money back, but I also believe some of those helmets will be sold again one day as original and for even more money.
Until there is serious consequences for those willing to defraud collectors out of thousands of dollars nothing will change with collecting. If dealers were involved they will do it again the next time the opportunity arises. It is a matter risk vs reward. The reward is large and the risk is small since no criminal or civil charges ever seem to get filed and certain people will go as far as to protect certain dealers. Collectors will only ever be reactive, which means someone has already been burned.
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The way that it played out and some of the reactions were quite predictable; cliches even. The difference is that the thread did get re-opened and not completely sanitized. There is enough there for objective thinking people to come to their own conclusions. IMHO, the "Shelton M2" was a fake from the beginning, was discovered, then it was parted out and "recycled" into a "camo". There is a great deal of money and ego involved. At least some "legal action" was threatened for the reveal and discussion.
I agree. After reading the 1917 Revolver thread on Calguns I wonder if Shelton's son popping into that thread was real or if someone took the idea from the Calguns thread. The Calguns thread it was clearly the Marines daughter.
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Good question re "Shelton's son". IMHO, it was not him. Too convenient and the "son" seemed too familiar with the hobby and hit all the right bases at the right time to provide sexy "provenance." Then he broke like the wind. That M1917 thread is a very good one btw.
When the "owner's son" showed up, he made sure to post about a knife that he owned. It just so happened to be a rare knife that was named to a Omaha Beach D-Day veteran, one that was later killed in action. So, despite being a collector in possession of a unique item, one that he had done research on, he didn't have the slightest interest in own his dad's helmet. Yea....
http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/292746-wwii-cut-down-m1913-patton-saber-hilt-section-sword-knives/#entry2368627
http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/292746-wwii-cut-down-m1913-patton-saber-hilt-section-sword-knives/#entry2368627
sprat
Senior Member
Thanks for posting
I read most of that thread. I do not collect 3R metals or helmets of any nation, but very good read and cautionary tale to be learned ( my Irish is coming out).
the crap I see at gunshows anymore has stopped me from going. I love it when I see East German,czech & other warsaw pact post-war stuff sold as WW2 german equipment. god forbid if you say something.
The other side of these dealers should be known, in the mid-sixties my neighbor a ex-gi gave me a few tinnies, he brought them home after the war. In the 90's, I took them to militaria shows to trade, every dealer said oh those are fake," but I will give you X dollars for them" so I passed and moved on. Then one guy standing near a table of a dealer told me there not fake!! he told me the dealer does not want to pay you the real price. This guy offered a real good price for them. these dealers are their own worst enemy
Private sales is the way to go
I read most of that thread. I do not collect 3R metals or helmets of any nation, but very good read and cautionary tale to be learned ( my Irish is coming out).
the crap I see at gunshows anymore has stopped me from going. I love it when I see East German,czech & other warsaw pact post-war stuff sold as WW2 german equipment. god forbid if you say something.
The other side of these dealers should be known, in the mid-sixties my neighbor a ex-gi gave me a few tinnies, he brought them home after the war. In the 90's, I took them to militaria shows to trade, every dealer said oh those are fake," but I will give you X dollars for them" so I passed and moved on. Then one guy standing near a table of a dealer told me there not fake!! he told me the dealer does not want to pay you the real price. This guy offered a real good price for them. these dealers are their own worst enemy
Private sales is the way to go
And the scumbag known as JKash is still selling faked helmets on ebay for thousands of dollars. Why because the thread was locked so new members at USMF likely won't find it buried after almost a year. Calguns has a thread about the Expertish aka Jason Veraldi who scammed people on a Mosin Group Buy. That thread gets at least a monthly bump and any new info about him is posted. Search Jason Veraldi and the thread will come up. This way if anyone is going to have any dealings with the clown a simple google search will let the world know he is a con man. Also because likely no one pressed charges or filed civil suit against Jamie he has no fear of reprisals. The con man continues to run his con.
http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/308638-painted-m-2-d-bail-on-ebay/
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http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/308638-painted-m-2-d-bail-on-ebay/
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pzjgr
EOD - bombs and bullets
That is why every time that scumbag Pgaplayerless posts, I post a link to his fake sniper bullshit thread...other people do it too...its funny when it happens, and that asshole still defends himself over that pile of crap....
That is how it should be. At least almost all the threads stay open here so it is possible.
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pzjgr
EOD - bombs and bullets
That is the awesome thing about this site, aside from the obvious world class knowledge contained by the members here...there is no shenanigans allowed...It gets called out fast when it happens, and memories are LONG here! Turds that float to the surface 10 years after they sold are quickly called out with data from the original sale!
