Third Party Press

Sauer Commercial

mrfarb

No War Eagles For You!
Staff member
Rather than spill the beans on this one, figured I'd make it fun. If you ran across this at a funshow, would you know what it is? Tell yourself what you think it is and I'm sure by the time we get to post 4-5 it will be revealed by people that know. I'll just post pics of what you could see on a table at a show. Hard to show in photos, the receiver is higher polish blue than usual 98k's. Stock is completely unmarked, no Eagle H and nothing on the keel. Right receiver has the "1" mark and nothing else.
 

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Is this one that was assembled by 'closet' builders using parts destined for Gustloff but diverted or was their factory still building a small number of commercial rifles? I'd have thought by '44 all rifles would be going to the military.
 
Is this one that was assembled by 'closet' builders using parts destined for Gustloff but diverted or was their factory still building a small number of commercial rifles? I'd have thought by '44 all rifles would be going to the military.

Asking the right questions there! It's unknown why this lot of commercial rifles were assembled, but they appear to be made from rejected components mostly. Note the milling error on the rear band, and milling error on the rear sight base where the rear screw is (missing material at the top), and the "X" on the barrel in the waffenamt location (others have the same X). Other small milling errors abound on some of the parts used. Looking at the serial numbering and firing proofs, this is a Sauer factory made commercial rifle. We seem to have established a pattern at other makers of using rejected components to assemble rifles (circle A rifles at BLM, Mauser using rejected components in Banner Mauser production). I think Sauer & Sohn provided a lot of parts to those local gunsmiths to manufacture 98k's from. Who was the customer? This rifle has no final acceptance, no Eagle H, so it wasn't the army. My feeling, local Militia's. I feel these commercials at Sauer were done at the very end of 98k production, some others have late barrel codes and stock date in this one is pretty late for Sauer - also, rifle has late numbering style with serial on barrel and other clues.
 

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Bingo! Commercial K98k.

Mrfarb, where do you keep finding this junk? It doesn't even have any freakin war eagles/swastikas. I want a Nazi gun.

People keep trying to take all my money by offering these to me, and it seems to be working.

Look closely at the firing proofs, they have swastika's and those are considered war eagles, just not very valuable ones because you can't see them without your glasses. That's why dot44 rifles are frowned upon, they too have small war eagles. The dou has a big war eagle on the barrel, but it's only 1 so who freaking buys a gun with just 1 war eagle? A fool, that's who, and a fool and his money are soon parted.
 
..Who was the customer? This rifle has no final acceptance, no Eagle H, so it wasn't the army. My feeling, local Militia's. I feel these commercials at Sauer were done at the very end of 98k production, some others have late barrel codes and stock date in this one is pretty late for Sauer - also, rifle has late numbering style with serial on barrel and other clues.

At least as interesting at who made them IMO. The militia theory seems VERY plausible, again IMHO. Think of the former soldiers in the area, whether injured earlier in this conflict and not sent back or those older veterans of WW1, many probably still with the itch. At this point in the war the handwriting was on the wall and those militias leadership were probably lobbying hard for military arms. Of course they had a valid point, especially by 1944. I also suppose there were the political apparatchiks who either were clamoring for such a rifle or just given them (presentations) to curry or maintain favor. I'm positive this happened.
 
Hallo,

very nice gun !

Bud a commercial gun has to have commercial firing proofs in my opinion.

Could this be a rifle for the Volkssturm ? Volkssturm Units have to been formed and equipped in each Region by local Administration.

Viele Grüße, best regards,

Georg
 
The individual journeys these parts made is interesting to me also. Obviously the bolt and receiver at a minimum left Chemnitz for Weimar. How they ultimately arrived in Suhl? Rejected at Gustloff and sent directly to Sauer? Maybe a more convoluted story? Certainly would have been an interesting area to study from 1939-1945. Would have loved to be free roaming then. Anyone remember the show "You Are There"?
 
..Mrfarb, where do you keep finding this junk? It doesn't even have any freakin war eagles/swastikas. I want a Nazi gun.

Exactly! They must know they've got a sucker and can pawn off any old junk on him, even without duel eagles..
 
The individual journeys these parts made is interesting to me also. Obviously the bolt and receiver at a minimum left Chemnitz for Weimar. How they ultimately arrived in Suhl? Rejected at Gustloff and sent directly to Sauer? Maybe a more convoluted story? Certainly would have been an interesting area to study from 1939-1945. Would have loved to be free roaming then. Anyone remember the show "You Are There"?

Most of the last 44 Sauer rifles were assembled from bcd4 receivers, Astrawerke bolts, and other "e" marked parts. A late X block Sauer looks like a Gustloff rifle in almost every way.

I'm also inclined to not call this a commercial since it lacks commercial firing proofing - more like in house made non-military?
 
I'm also inclined to not call this a commercial since it lacks commercial firing proofing - more like in house made non-military?

Hallo,

that is my intention too. The Rifle was made from Rejected parts, bud in my opinion this means not scrap, just not acceptable for the Waffenamt. The Volkssturm guns are far away from military quality. So these parts are suitable for those "Volkssturm" guns.

I think the Sauer und Sohn Factory was advised by regional gouvernment to produce rifles for the Volkssturm, and they did it (or regional subcontractors) by using those recected parts to save military production capacities. This could explain the S&S military firing proofs.

Viele Grüße, best regards,

Georg
 
Sorry if this throws the discussion off track, but I have a couple random questions quasi related to this rifle. Feel free to move to its own topic...

We see police bayonets for 98ks. We see police proofed pretty much every german WW2 pistol. Yet there are no police marked 98ks (that I am familiar with). Why? Sorry if you covered this in volume 1, I don't recall seeing an answer in there.
 
...Rifle was made from Rejected parts, bud in my opinion this means not scrap, just not acceptable for the Waffenamt... and they did it (or regional subcontractors) by using those recected parts to save military production capacities..

2 great points Georg. It's obvious some of the failed components are merely cosmetic or esthetic depending on your view. Functional without a doubt in my mind. Until the point comes where rifles for the Heer start to use previously failed components this option makes great sense.
 
..inclined to not call this a commercial...

Can we agree that by this time true commercial rifles as well as any export contracts are over? Or is that still a stretch by me? I do realize at some point ANY weapon made was only destined for one place. When this exactly happens is subject to discussion I believe and probably varies by manufacturer and region even.
 
Can we agree that by this time true commercial rifles as well as any export contracts are over? Or is that still a stretch by me? I do realize at some point ANY weapon made was only destined for one place. When this exactly happens is subject to discussion I believe and probably varies by manufacturer and region even.

No, there are commercial proofed rifles as late as March 1945 that I have seen, owned a few commercial proofed projects dated 45.
 
That is interesting, but seems SO counter intuitive to me. How can commercial rifles still be justified, other than the odd 'closet' rifles? Sense would seem to dictate EVERY weapon no matter type would go directly to the war effort.
 
That is interesting, but seems SO counter intuitive to me. How can commercial rifles still be justified, other than the odd 'closet' rifles? Sense would seem to dictate EVERY weapon no matter type would go directly to the war effort.

In my opinion the late commercials were produced for the Volkssturm, which would be for the war effort.

http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread.php?881-Need-some-help-with-VZ24-identification

http://www.k98kforum.com/showthread.php?8074-1944-commercial-resto
 

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