Personal vendetta against ghw2 ??

[M45]

Personal vendetta against ghw2 ??

This might have something to do with my featuring GHW2 helmets in the 'questionable camos' section. I don't know why they would say this, because I feature helmets in that thread from a variety of places; websites, eBay, dealers, forums, etc... I don't just focus on GHW2.

I know what you are probably thinking, that it must have something to do with the charge of me 'stealing' GHW lot# information to use in my lot# book. Or possibly it is because I was harassed, censored and banned from GHW1 for discussing Champagne SS helmets inappropriately.

I think GHW2 needs to grow up and act like adults. They are a helmet forum, not the 'Holy See' of the entire hobby. They should just accept the fact that not everyone is going to agree with them.

If Champagne SS had a home, it was at GHW1. There is was protected, nurtured and defended.

If GHW2 wants to redeem itself and be a place where collectors are free to express differing opinions, then this whining about me is a terrible start.

 

[tjg79]

You're just a celebrity in the lid collecting arena. It just goes with the title of "lid collecting guru and celebrity."

 

[M45]

You're just a celebrity in the lid collecting arena. It just goes with the title of "lid collecting guru and celebrity."

Guru Purnima

Now that you mention it, being a lid guru isn't such a bad thing after all : )

It definitely will not go to my head.

 

[tjg79]

Be grateful you're just a lid guru. If you were a God of Lids, second class, we'd have to start a thread and examine your entire career. Sorry, but the God of Lids, first class position is currently filled.

 

[Frank F.]

Oh No!

Guru Purnima

Now that you mention it, being a lid guru isn't such a bad thing after all : )

F.

 

[Warrior1354]

Very true tjg79 besides M45 doesn't threaten folks with bolts of lighting from the SS God Kelly Hicks either. Like somebody else we know of. That title is reserved for Nutmeg.

 

[tjg79]

Very true tjg79 besides M45 doesn't threaten folks with bolts of lighting from the SS God Kelly Hicks either. Like somebody else we know of. That title is reserved for Nutmeg.

Well, for M45 to qualify for the God of Lids status, he'd have to perform a three step process. The fist step is to perform a miracle by turning a fake lid into a controversial collectable lid and publish a lid book with glossy pictures featuring his miracle controversial collectable lid. The next step would be accomplished if he could get WAFtards to worship the lid and have it thoroughly vetted on GHW2. And, the last step would be to have his miracle controversial collectable lid pass a thorough lid testing by XRFacts and receive a coveted XRFacts COA.

Then, and only then, M45 could threaten folks with bolts of lighting.

 

[Hambone]

I believe that hobbies develop their own "societies" and "social rules" and "norms", as do any groups of people. We have our "rules" and "norms" here, which are generally easy and basic, and start with transparency and no censorship. IMHO, WAF developed a very unhealthy and dysfunctional set of "norms" and "rules" which are affecting helmet collecting adversely to this day. Certainly we see this in their attacks and censorship of those who attempted to reveal that the Champagne Rune was an airbrushed fraud and XRFacts was a hoax. That's dysfunctional. That's waftarded. Did Nutmeg / Vonrall help the hobby with his WAF party line attacks on those who dissent?

I support GWH2 as it has the potential to rectify the previous dysfunction in the helmet collecting hobby. WAF established "norms" and "social rules" which vary depending upon the who, not the what. I think GWH2 under DougB outing the Champagne Rune and the XRFacts involvement put them on a road to changing things for the better. It is regrettable that this ongoing feud between M45 and GWH2 continues. It would be nice to see a reconciliation.

 

[M45]

It is regrettable that this ongoing feud between M45 and GWH2 continues. It would be nice to see a reconciliation.

This may be wishful thinking in light of me essentially proving the head SS Guru (DougB) wrong in front of his own temple (GHW1). This is no doubt seen as the 'unforgivable sin' worthy of eternal banishment in Hades.

While this opinion is not popular, I thank k98k forum for at least allowing it airtime. The opinion is essentially this: DougB purchased GHW1 to have a platform for promoting his ideas, opinions, and agendas; at the forefront being C-SS. With his own forum he was essentially a god, free to channel discussion about C-SS in ways he approved of; and free to chastise, sensor and ban those who refused to conform their ideas to his. A forum was important to have in light of DougB being chastised himself on WRF for getting too heavy-handed with the senor button and over-stepping his authority (re: my C-SS discussion with SSamir).

Indeed DougB's ghost still haunts the halls of GHW2 considering his strong influence there to have all of his posts removed, ripping a massive hole in the forum in the process. Even the mildest criticisms of his reckless actions were shouted down as an affront to the 'memory of DougB'. When GHW2 took control, they had the opportunity to reinstate me at that time, but alas my profile only reads; "membership refused".

GHW2 does not like me because DougB did not like me. And DougB did not like me because lot# research wrecked his grand plan for widespread C-SS acceptance. DougB could control his own lot# list by controlling the way it was interpreted, and indeed he locked it up tight for the eyes of premium members only. He was nearly always hostile to my list because its interpretation (that C-SS was postwar) was beyond his ability to control.

 

[Hambone]

DougB and I have disagreed and been "hostile" on issues before and he's not held that against me that I was ever aware of. I don't see how he could be deemed to be a proponent of the CRSS while knowing it was bad. Indeed, he did the hobby a huge service by spending large amounts of his time and money debunking the CRSS. At most, IMHO, it can be said he believed they were original, then changed his position and admitted it, same with XRFacts. My position on DougB is that he is honest and intellectually honest. I believe you are too M45. We are all wrong at times. The test is how one handles being wrong. I trust DougB.

I support what GWH2 is doing. They are the lone voice on this matter in the helmet world. It is essentially this site, Bugme's excellent US helmet site, and GWH2.

 

[Eurofighter]

It is regrettable that this ongoing feud between M45 and GWH2 continues. It would be nice to see a reconciliation.

This may be wishful thinking in light of me essentially proving the head SS Guru (DougB) wrong in front of his own temple (GHW1). This is no doubt seen as the 'unforgivable sin' worthy of eternal banishment in Hades.

While this opinion is not popular, I thank k98k forum for at least allowing it airtime. The opinion is essentially this: DougB purchased GHW1 to have a platform for promoting his ideas, opinions, and agendas; at the forefront being C-SS. With his own forum he was essentially a god, free to channel discussion about C-SS in ways he approved of; and free to chastise, sensor and ban those who refused to conform their ideas to his. A forum was important to have in light of DougB being chastised himself on WRF for getting too heavy-handed with the senor button and over-stepping his authority (re: my C-SS discussion with SSamir).

Indeed DougB's ghost still haunts the halls of GHW2 considering his strong influence there to have all of his posts removed, ripping a massive hole in the forum in the process. Even the mildest criticisms of his reckless actions were shouted down as an affront to the 'memory of DougB'. When GHW2 took control, they had the opportunity to reinstate me at that time, but alas my profile only reads; "membership refused".

GHW2 does not like me because DougB did not like me. And DougB did not like me because lot# research wrecked his grand plan for widespread C-SS acceptance. DougB could control his own lot# list by controlling the way it was interpreted, and indeed he locked it up tight for the eyes of premium members only. He was nearly always hostile to my list because its interpretation (C-SS was postwar) was beyond his ability to control.

I am a great supporter of GHW2 - Your attitude and response in your own reply confirms the allegation behind this thread. Many people on GHW2 don't dislike you, many don't even know you. Many are just irritated and fed-up by the continued snipes and digs. Time to put your past issues with that forum behind you and move on.
.... and yes on that forum I am 'Munich17' ..and up until now you do (in my opinion) have a vendetta against them.
EF

 

[M45]

I don't see how he could be deemed to be a proponent of the CRSS while knowing it was bad.


I would not discount that possibility too hastily. I recall that one of DougB's "excuses" for him being taken in by the C-SS fraud was the idea of 'sole-source authentication'; C-SS had only one real source (Kelly H.'s books) that "authenticated" them. This was a problem that DougB had always been mindful of as a C-SS 'weakness'. Thus his attempts to generate other authentication sources, re: XRFacts. Him originally being neck-deep in the XRFacts debacle and trumpeting from on high that there was now 'scientific proof' of C-SS authenticity was a matter of him getting the cart before the horse. Of course he eventually backed down in the face of overwhelming evidence against it.

DougB was also neck-deep in Sham-pain Prune sauce as well, using his strong influence and popular forum to promote it. I think one of the biggest misnomers circulating in the helmet collecting world today is that DougB one day came to the realization all by himself that there was something wrong with C-SS. His initial hostility toward my research contradicting his "textbook Decal" proclamations and later toward the lot# book which cast serious doubt on C-SS authenticity demonstrated to me that outing C-SS as a fake was the last thing he wanted.

So when I see people repeatedly neck-deep (100% commitment) in these debacles prior to their 180-degree flip-flopping after serious doubts are raised by others, I have to wonder about their sincerity.

 

[Frank F.]

I believe that hobbies develop their own "societies" and "social rules" and "norms", as do any groups of people. We have our "rules" and "norms" here, which are generally easy and basic, and start with transparency and no censorship. IMHO, WAF developed a very unhealthy and dysfunctional set of "norms" and "rules" which are affecting helmet collecting adversely to this day. Certainly we see this in their attacks and censorship of those who attempted to reveal that the Champagne Rune was an airbrushed fraud and XRFacts was a hoax. That's dysfunctional. That's waftarded. Did Nutmeg / Vonrall help the hobby with his WAF party line attacks on those who dissent?

I support GWH2 as it has the potential to rectify the previous dysfunction in the helmet collecting hobby. WAF established "norms" and "social rules" which vary depending upon the who, not the what. I think GWH2 under DougB outing the Champagne Rune and the XRFacts involvement put them on a road to changing things for the better. It is regrettable that this ongoing feud between M45 and GWH2 continues. It would be nice to see a reconciliation.

Interesting point! "Lord of the Flies" anyone? We all are on some sort of a remote island, after all...

F.

 

[Hambone]

Interesting point! "Lord of the Flies" anyone? We all are on some sort of a remote island, after all...

F.

Well Frank I think Lord of the Flies is a bit extreme It's more subtle "little societies", like work groups, crews, etc.

M45, I was the guy arguing with DougB probably most about XRFacts publicly and much privately. He was not a staunch proponent of it, not a cheerleader of it. If anything I found him more centrist about it, guardedly optimistic, while I was quite opposed to it. I saw his posts on the CRSS which go way back and I saw someone who believed because he believed in Hicks' infallibility on this subject matter. DougB then starting seeing things which weren't adding up, realized there was a problem, and understanding full well that the WAFtardation of the helmet world would not allow questioning of Hicks, its "god", he set out quietly to amass the evidence to make his case. Surprisingly, after making what I saw as a slam dunk case, he still was attacked by the profoundly waftarded.

So, in short, I like you, support most of your positions, but cannot agree with your characterizations of DougB because of my own personal experience and knowledge. I think DougB is a good and honorable fellow. As I told him awhile back, "no good deed goes unpunished." Frankly, I believe his search for the truth lead him to be disgusted with this hobby and some of the "leaders" in it. I know the feeling.

 

[Frank F.]

Well Frank I think Lord of the Flies is a bit extreme It's more subtle "little societies", like work groups, crews, etc.

M45, I was the guy arguing with DougB probably most about XRFacts publicly and much privately. He was not a staunch proponent of it, not a cheerleader of it. If anything I found him more centrist about it, guardedly optimistic, while I was quite opposed to it. I saw his posts on the CRSS which go way back and I saw someone who believed because he believed in Hicks' infallibility on this subject matter. DougB then starting seeing things which weren't adding up, realized there was a problem, and understanding full well that the WAFtardation of the helmet world would not allow questioning of Hicks, its "god", he set out quietly to amass the evidence to make his case. Surprisingly, after making what I saw as a slam dunk case, he still was attacked by the profoundly waftarded.

So, in short, I like you, support most of your positions, but cannot agree with your characterizations of DougB because of my own personal experience and knowledge. I think DougB is a good and honorable fellow. As I told him awhile back, "no good deed goes unpunished." Frankly, I believe his search for the truth lead him to be disgusted with this hobby and some of the "leaders" in it. I know the feeling.

Y'know — as personal as this gets in times it may not be all that extreme.

I do agree with you on DougB. Having had a few interactions with him I did not see anything but an honest, courteous, friendly, and knowledgeable individual who did not mind, and even welcomed, a serious exchange with anyone.

F.

 

[tjg79]

Well Frank I think Lord of the Flies is a bit extreme It's more subtle "little societies", like work groups, crews, etc.

M45, I was the guy arguing with DougB probably most about XRFacts publicly and much privately. He was not a staunch proponent of it, not a cheerleader of it. If anything I found him more centrist about it, guardedly optimistic, while I was quite opposed to it. I saw his posts on the CRSS which go way back and I saw someone who believed because he believed in Hicks' infallibility on this subject matter. DougB then starting seeing things which weren't adding up, realized there was a problem, and understanding full well that the WAFtardation of the helmet world would not allow questioning of Hicks, its "god", he set out quietly to amass the evidence to make his case. Surprisingly, after making what I saw as a slam dunk case, he still was attacked by the profoundly waftarded.

So, in short, I like you, support most of your positions, but cannot agree with your characterizations of DougB because of my own personal experience and knowledge. I think DougB is a good and honorable fellow. As I told him awhile back, "no good deed goes unpunished." Frankly, I believe his search for the truth lead him to be disgusted with this hobby and some of the "leaders" in it. I know the feeling.

I concur with your view and description of Doug B.

I haven't seen any evidence to support M45's view of Doug B.

 

[Eurofighter]

Indeed DougB's ghost still haunts the halls of GHW2 considering his strong influence there to have all of his posts removed, ripping a massive hole in the forum in the process. Even the mildest criticisms of his reckless actions were shouted down as an affront to the 'memory of DougB'.

I was one of those who voiced my disappointment with the large amounts of useful and interesting information that had disappeared..and was told by the new owner that if I didn't like it 'then Pi$$ off'.
At that point I started looking here at k98k. After a few weeks of reading your posts M45 , it became clearly obvious there was a issue and your feelings towards GHW were plain to see. To be honest it put me off this forum..the 'questionable camos' thread is interesting and informative, the discussions good.
You started a great thread, selected helmets from various sources and genetated opinion..great. However, that underlying feeling of dislike or resentment for GHW clearly shines through...a real shame.

EF

 

[M45]

EF, a real shame that someone has an opinion that differs from the mainstream, is not afraid to express it, and is actually permitted to do so ??

I also caught my fair share of abuse from some GHW2 members by me posting their camos and some of their comments here. Do you see any problems with their behavior ?

Here on k98k, has there been huge blocks of valuable helmet information that has disappeared overnight, and when you inquire about it are told to 'PISS OFF' ??

EF, I share your sentiment that it would be nice if we would all just love one another and get along on helmet forums. But that is idealism, a pipe dream, not reality. Try not to let these localized squabbles put you off. Try to glean the information that benefits you and be happy with that. If you don't want to get personally involved, then you don't have to. I that recommend forum participants develop a thick skin. This is rough and tumble around here, not Sesame Street.

Now there is something in helmet collecting called Champagne SS that is worthy of our attention. Much info resided on GHW, but now that is all gone along with the chief proponent (DougB) who we are not permitted to speak the slightest criticism of. Does this not raise suspicions ? Champagne SS discussion over there has stalled and I think that is just fine with them; they hope the nightmare will just go away.

 

[Hambone]

Here on k98k, has there been huge blocks of valuable helmet information that has disappeared overnight, and when you inquire about it are told to 'PISS OFF' ??

There has been no information here which has disappeared, unless the original authors of the posts themselves deleted their own material. Everyone knows that and no one would reasonably believe that happened here. That must have been a typo.

Back to the group "norms" / "rules" / "culture" thing: we in K98k collecting run our humpers to ground. If you are involved in this in this hobby you're done, no matter who you are. We all know that's the deal, thems the rules. There seems to be significantly more tolerance for this in German helmet collecting circles, almost like it is a given, acceptable. Additionally, the level of rebuke and shaming is relative to WHO you are within that society.

I can guarantee that in K98k collecting if we had a shampain ruin scandal, there would be a competition to see who could ferret out and ID all those responsible and run them off. Whereas in the German helmet world, there is but one forum still discussing it, GHW2. It's as good as buried at WAF and War Relics.

 

[M45]

I concur with your view and description of Doug B.

I haven't seen any evidence to support M45's view of Doug B.

tjg79
You're posting a mix of screen shots of old Doug B's comments and former opinions as if they're his current views with your highly biased and speculative assertions as to Doug B's intent and motivations. The result is that your narrative appears fabricated and it appears you have an agenda to smear Doug B by dredging up obsolete quotes. Is that fair? If Doug B admits that he was wrong and apologizes, which he has, then these types of criticisms don't appear relevant or fair. I think your negative bias towards Doug B is obvious and it appears that you haven't gotten over your previous disputes with him for which he has publically apologized to you. I can understand your feelings for being unfairly criticized and ostracized by Doug B over the C-SS issue when you were correct and produced the best evidence that C-SS lids were post-war fabrications, but Doug B capitulated on that issue and apologized.

You're implying that Hicks and Doug B both knew the C-SS lid was fake from the beginning, but I don't think that's the case. I believe they were both fooled by the spray-job. And, a big difference between Hicks and Doug B is that Doug B doesn't condone fakery; Hicks does.

Doug B has publically refuted the claims of David May's XRF lid testing and XRFacts. Prior to that, about five or six years ago, he was dazzled with Maui's XRF claims. Besides the XRFact cofounders, Doug B could have been considered an XRF lid testing insider, because of his participation providing lids for their baseline, and his proximity and relationship to Hicks and May. Would it be fair to criticize Doug B today for being dazzled by XRF lid testing five years ago after he's publically revealed how flaky and unreliable their lid XRF data was? I don't think it would be fair, because it doesn't reflect his current views and he has publically admitted he was initially wrong about XRF lid testing. It was easy for a non-technical type person to be dazzled by the XRFacts light show.




OK, here's my evidence to support my view of DougB. He points to sole source authentication of C-SS (only Kelly H.'s books) as an excuse. And you also mentioned DougB's once close ties with XRFacts.


Prior to that, about five or six years ago, he was dazzled with Maui's XRF claims. Besides the XRFact cofounders, Doug B could have been considered an XRF lid testing insider, because of his participation providing lids for their baseline, and his proximity and relationship to Hicks and May.