Opportunity to buy

[bananarama]

Hello all,
I have an opportunity to buy this rifle for a very good price. In my mind this is a great deal and I plan on hopping on it as soon as I can. Anything anyone can tell me? What would you value this rifle at?

I know parts of the bolt are mismatched but everything else seems to be a match.

 

[runner]

The bolt is a total mismatch. The “matching “ number on the bolt root is not original and adds no value. If the rest of the rifle is correct, somewhere around $1000. Just an opinion, not an appraisal.

 

[bananarama]

The bolt is a total mismatch. The “matching “ number on the bolt root is not original and adds no value. If the rest of the rifle is correct, somewhere around $1000. Just an opinion, not an appraisal.

Right. I believe that the back of the bolt number is a re-punch, as well as the top of the bolt handle. Maybe I'm wrong but the top of the bolt sleeve "4978" looks ok to me. The rest of the rifle not including the bolt looks correct(besides maybe the top handguard wood being a mismatched color). If you have a differing thought on that let me know and don't hold back.

I will say I was offered to buy this from an estate of a dead relative for less than your opinion price of $1,000.

 

[RazorBurn]

Russian captures bring 700 bucks now. You do the math...

 

[bananarama]

Russian captures bring 700 bucks now. You do the math...

I've been away so I did not see this. I still have not jumped at the purchase yet as the bolt mismatch does turn me off. There's no X on the receiver so it shouldn't be a Russian capture. I am however curious as to why the eagles have seen some defacement in the swastica. I wonder what happened there...

 

[Mauserguy85]

I've been away so I did not see this. I still have not jumped at the purchase yet as the bolt mismatch does turn me off. There's no X on the receiver so it shouldn't be a Russian capture. I am however curious as to why the eagles have seen some defacement in the swastica. I wonder what happened there...

They are not defaced. That’s how J.P Sauer firing proofs are. Very interesting history behind the trademark “small” eagle proof. JPS&S was the only k98k assembler/manufacturer that was in private family owned hands. The others were property of the state or part of state owned conglomerates. Some say this is one of the reasonings for the trademark very small eagle proof which almost looks like the swastika at its feet is not present. Let’s just say, Hitler wasn’t too happy about not being able to turn JPS&S into state owned property. We have a lot of speculation and even theories, but without divulging into that. It’s a very small eagle proof mark compared to many others, and also these punches became damaged with use which would make the impression into the metal less defined. Also many times dirt and grime get in there so when you get the rifle, you can clean the proof with a fine nylon brush and a drop or two of ballistol. You may be surprised to see the result as from your pics I’m seeing a good amount of thick grease in that general area.

Looks like a nice rifle to me, a bolt mismatch pretty much. I would love to see the inside of the stock and handguard. I can’t see why you’re not owning it already though. Some RC’s are bringing $800+ nowadays and no matter what anyone says, this example is better than that.

The bolt root was scrubbed of its number and or suffix. You have late war parts on that bolt as well. Either way, that humped and mixed bolt will fetch $150 at least on eBay. With that you can try and find an early war JPS sauer bolt to have the rifle more “correct”. The handguard could be an armorers replacement as far as we know.

 

[bananarama]

They are not defaced. That’s how J.P Sauer firing proofs are. Very interesting history behind the trademark “small” eagle proof. JPS&S was the only k98k assembler/manufacturer that was in private family owned hands. The others were property of the state or part of state owned conglomerates. Some say this is one of the reasoning for the trademark very small eagle proof which many looks like the swastika at its feet is not truly present. Let’s just say, Hitler wasn’t too happy about not being able to turn JPS&S into state owned property.

It’s a nice rifle, a bolt mismatch looks like. If the price is fair, I can’t see why you’re not owning it already.

Thank you for your response. I was trying to figure out for over an hour why the swastikas' were missing and just wasn't coming up with the right answers. I did not do any research into JP Sauer but that's super interesting knowledge to have thank you so much. Is there any known reason for JPS not making the imagery more visible?

I actually bought the rifle and also a full matching bolt(not the same serial as the rifle obviously) but at least now I have a full matched bolt for it and will have the rest matched. The seller doesn't "know" firearms and is too scared to take anything apart so I'm keen to find out if the top wood of the hand guard is actually matched or if its a replacement. Its a completely different color to the rest of the wood which makes me think its not the same serial sadly.

 

[Mauserguy85]

Lol, I was editing and adding to my post above when you responded. There you go. The handguard could be an armorer’s replacement for all we know. We would need pics of that and the stock channel to further confirm things of course. If it is the matching stock, then this rifle is a nice JPS bolt mismatch essentially. Nothing wrong with that. Even if the handguard is not matching, an armorers replacement can be found. I’m sure someone has one lying around that they would be willing to sell. I know I have one for a rainy day.

 

[bananarama]

Lol, I was editing and adding to my post above when you responded. There you go. The handguard could be an armorer’s replacement for all we know. We would need pics of that and the stock channel to further confirm things of course. If it is the matching stock, then this rifle is a nice JPS bolt mismatch essentially. Nothing wrong with that. Even if the handguard is not matching, an armorers replacement can be found. I’m sure someone has one lying around that they would be willing to sell. I know I have one for a rainy day.

Good morning,
So upon getting it back home and taking it apart I’ve discovered something. The wood is stamped twice. Once with 165 and the other time with 2740. The upper hand guard is 3563. Every part seemingly of the rifle(floor plate, magazine follower, trigger assembly, bayonet lug, barrel bands, butt plate, receiver) besides the bolt has matching 165 serial. Im just curious as to why the wood has two numbers?! Now I need to look for a matching stained piece of wood for the ton hand guard wood.

 

[bananarama]

Lol, I was editing and adding to my post above when you responded. There you go. The handguard could be an armorer’s replacement for all we know. We would need pics of that and the stock channel to further confirm things of course. If it is the matching stock, then this rifle is a nice JPS bolt mismatch essentially. Nothing wrong with that. Even if the handguard is not matching, an armorers replacement can be found. I’m sure someone has one lying around that they would be willing to sell. I know I have one for a rainy day.

Sorry forgot to add these pictures. Curiously I don’t know what’s going on here. I haven’t seen this on my other Mauser or any of the others I’ve looked at. This was not in the pictures I was sent when I was in contact with the seller.

 

[biggymu]

2 7 40 is the date.

 

[bananarama]

2 7 40 is the date.

Thank you. On my other stock I don’t recollect it having a date stamp. So I was unsure thank you.

 

[Mauserguy85]

Yup, 2 -7-40 is the production date of the stock. It’s the original stock for that rifle so that’s a big plus. For the handguard I would look for an armorers replacement. The downside is somebody messed with that sling cutout on the left side to add that metal sling holder. Looks familiar, like off a Finnish rifle. Not sure.

 

[Pisgah]

French postwar sling bar.

 

[bananarama]

French postwar sling bar.

Oh interesting… should there be other telltale signs of it being a French owned rifle at some point in its life?

 

[bananarama]

Yup, 2 -7-40 is the production date of the stock. It’s the original stock for that rifle so that’s a big plus. For the handguard I would look for an armorers replacement. The downside is somebody messed with that sling cutout on the left side to add that metal sling holder. Looks familiar, like off a Finnish rifle. Not sure.

Interesting. Any idea where to look for that piece? Liberty tree collectors sells laminated hand guards I see those for sale. But it looks like it’s a crap shoot of what “color” you get.

 

[Mauserguy85]

I would ask here. Like I said yesterday. I have one, but am at the time unwilling to part with it. I’m sure somebody has one

 

[bananarama]

I would ask here. Like I said yesterday. I have one, but am at the time unwilling to part with it. I’m sure somebody has one

Ok cool thanks. Another question that may seem really dumb and I’m sorry in advance... German dates were/ are day, month, year like the rest of Europe right?

 

[Mauserguy85]

Ok cool thanks. Another question that may seem really dumb and I’m sorry in advance... German dates were/ are day, month, year like the rest of Europe right?

On a 1940 k98k, those numbers (2 7 40) in the stock channel are the stock completion date code. If I’m not mistaken, the stock was produced in the 2nd day of the seventh week of 1940. So February 13, 1940 would be the date the stock was made. I could be wrong though. I have not extensively divulged into stock code history as have many other senior members here.

As to the post war French sling bar. I have no idea. Do you mind sharing what you paid for the rifle?

 

[Mauserguy85]

Hold on, I referenced some material… and is this a legit French rework? I was under the impression that the French reworks had the post war sling bar added and renumbered the bolt root with the last 3 digits of the serial which in this case is the full serial….