Once, and for all

[Kammerjaeger]

OK,

I am trying to identify which manufacturers and years, were select K98k rifles (officially) chosen from to be used as sniper rifles. I will exclude the Zf-41's as I think they are sharpshooter type rifles and not true snipers. That said, here is my list.


S/42 - SSR
42 1940
byf 43
byf 44
byf 45
ce 41 (?)
ce 42 (?)
ce43
ce44
ar 43(?)
ar 44(?)
bnz 43
bnz 44
bnz 45 (?)
bcd 43
bcd 4 (?)
bcd 45 (?)
swp 45

What needs to be added/deleted?

KJ

 

[Absolut]

Why BCD43? And I'v never heard on BCD44, only of BCD4 ;-).

You forgot about the early SSR rifles, Mauser, S/147, CE, ... etc. And what about the early LT rifles? And the Suhler Claw mount rifles?

Robert Spielauer has also pictured SWP45 SSDC snipers, aswell as AR HT snipers.

 

[Kammerjaeger]

Yes, of course, bcd 4, not bcd 44. . I have included bcd 43 because Senich cites one several times (with photos). It is an SS double claw with "dow" Opticotechna. I had never heard of the Suhler claw mounts until now. Were they a civilian mount pressed into service?

I have revised my list. Please help me out, this is a learning experience for me.


KJ

 

[vaughn99]

Hello,

you make it easier you should GROUP the type of sniper system with the manufacturer with proper year. like this.

1. Short Side Rail (SSR)

Gewehr 98 SS Reworks 1938-1940 SSR Type 1
J.P Sauer 1941-1942 SSR Type 2
J.P Sauer 1943 SSR Type 3
BYF 1943 SSR Type 3

etc. it will look cleaner and also group the info your looking for.

later
vaughn

 

[Kammerjaeger]

Hello,

you make it easier you should GROUP the type of sniper system with the manufacturer with proper year. like this.

1. Short Side Rail (SSR)

Gewehr 98 SS Reworks 1938-1940 SSR Type 1
J.P Sauer 1941-1942 SSR Type 2
J.P Sauer 1943 SSR Type 3
BYF 1943 SSR Type 3

etc. it will look cleaner and also group the info your looking for.

later
vaughn

Great idea Vaughn. I am going to nees an assist. I'll start working it. Thanks!

KJ

 

[silentsten]

This is something I'm actually interested in, although I'm more curious as to a specific type of mount that I don't know what it was called I just know it was used with the zf39 and mounted on the top of the reciever

 

[mdarnell19]

This is something I'm actually interested in, although I'm more curious as to a specific type of mount that I don't know what it was called I just know it was used with the zf39 and mounted on the top of the reciever

There were a few scope mount systems that were on top of the receiver. But you are probably thinking of a Turret mount or Single Claw mount.

 

[Kammerjaeger]

Here is my best estimate, recognizing there are no absolutes and that there were always exceptions. Feel free to constructively criticize.


1. Short Side Rail (SSR)

Gewehr 98 SS Reworks 1938-1940 SSR Type 1
J.P Sauer 1941-1942 SSR Type 2
J.P Sauer 1943 SSR Type 3
Mauser Oberndorf 1943 SSR Type 3


2. Turret Mount System

Mauser Oberndorf 1939-1944 Low Turret
J.P Sauer 1939 – 1944 Low Turret
Mauser Oberndorf 1941-1945 High Turret
Mauser Werke AG, Borsigwalde 1943-1944 HighTurret
J.P Sauer 1943-1944 High Turret


3. Long Side Rail (LSR)

Gustloff Werke 1944-1945 LSR
J.P Sauer 1943-1944 LSR


4. Claw Mount System

Steyr Diamler-Puch, AG 1943-1944 Single Claw
Gustloff Werke 1943-1945 SS Double claw
Mauser Oberndorf 1943-1945 SS Double Claw
Gustloff Werke 1943-1945 SS Objective Mount
Mauser Oberndorf 1943-1945 SS Objective Mount (aka Suhler Claw)
BSW 1937-1939 SS Objective Mount (aka Suhler Claw)



KJ

 

[mdarnell19]

KJ,
Looks good. Don't forget the swept back model made by JP. Sauer.

 

[Kammerjaeger]

Was the swept back mount actually issued or was it a prototype?

KJ

 

[Absolut]

Steyr also made SS Double Claw snipers.

I believe what you call the "Objective Claw" is what I title as "Suhler Claw Mount". And I'm pretty sure that they didn't do that in that late period, but much earlier. Isn't Dave Roberts rifle an early BSW production?

 

[Dave Roberts]

Yes , My Objective Mount Dbl Claw is built on a BSW Rifle .
I have also seen them built using Sauer Rifles and I would suspect other makers .
I only have knowledge of the above mentioned makers to date. Best Regards

 

[mdarnell19]

I guess the swept back would be categorized as a prototype. As far as I know only around 20 or 30 were made.

 

[vaughn99]

I think there are errors. not an expert just what I have seen and read

LT

BYF stopped k (K) block 1943 unless some left over, small handfull assembled like dave found it would be the latest for normal production.

from all the examples I have seen CE didn't make LT's at all mainly made SSR but new info might be found.

HT

BYF HT only k (K) block 1943-1945
AR rifles NO HT if they were they were BYF assembled rifles on recycled/surplus/contract receivers.
CE HT only 1944

LSR

1943 CE were trials thus far none were ever LSR mounted I would be suspicious if one was so only a BCD4 receiver assembled by CE

later
vaughn

 

[Kammerjaeger]

I think there are errors. not an expert just what I have seen and read

LT

BYF stopped k (K) block 1943 unless some left over, small handfull assembled like dave found it would be the latest for normal production.

from all the examples I have seen CE didn't make LT's at all mainly made SSR but new info might be found.

HT

BYF HT only k (K) block 1943-1945
AR rifles NO HT if they were they were BYF assembled rifles on recycled/surplus/contract receivers.
CE HT only 1944

LSR

1943 CE were trials thus far none were ever LSR mounted I would be suspicious if one was so only a BCD4 receiver assembled by CE

later
vaughn

Thanks vaughn, insightful. Back to the drawing board...

KJ

 

[Kammerjaeger]

Revision 4


1. Short Side Rail (SSR)

Gewehr 98 SS Reworks 1938-1940 SSR Type 1
J.P Sauer 1941-1942 SSR Type 2
J.P Sauer 1943 SSR Type 3
Mauser Oberndorf 1943 SSR Type 3

2. Turret Mount System

Mauser Oberndorf 1939-1943 Low Turret (ceased at k-block 1943)
Mauser Oberndorf 1943-1945 High Turret (k-block only)
J.P Sauer 1944 High Turret

3. Long Side Rail (LSR)

Gustloff Werke 1944-1945 LSR

4. Claw Mount System

Steyr Diamler-Puch, AG 1943-1944 Single Claw
Steyr Diamler-Puch, AG 1943-1944 SS Double claw
Gustloff Werke 1943-1945 SS Double claw
Mauser Oberndorf 1943-1945 SS Double Claw
Gustloff Werke 1943-1945 SS Objective Mount (aka Suhler Claw)
Mauser Oberndorf 1943-1945 SS Objective Mount (aka Suhler Claw)
BSW 1937-1939 SS Objective Mount (aka Suhler Claw)


Constructive criticisms welcome.

KJ