Third Party Press

Late War P.38 Pistols

Absolut

Senior Member
Thought I should post these late war P.38's. I don't know much on the late Spreewerk Berlin pistols, except that to my knowledge those with the prefix are the very last ones. Aren't those to be said that they were never put into service anyway?

Attached the first of the three - an all phosphate svw45 coded P.38 in the f-Block. From what I can tell it is all German. Is known in which serial block the French took over the production?
 

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Second post for an a-prefix Spreewerk Berlin P.38 pistol. This one has markings on the front of the frame, see the last picture. Can anyone tell me what the meaning on those is?
 

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Late war stuff is my favorite. The only P38 I've kept over the decades is a commercial marked SVW45 with a serial number that shouldn't exist. Farb has a theory about just exactly what it is but he's mum on it other than to say that it is WWII production. This came from a veteran's basement where it had sat on a beam since coming home with him after the war:







 
An all phosphate svw45 coded P.38 in the f-Block. From what I can tell it is all German. Is known in which serial block the French took over the production?

French production begins anew in the g block. The first recorded example is 4g.
 
Heres my post svm45 though its in the i block and still has a waffenamts barrel and does anybody know what the letters behind serial number on frame are? Thanks 20221024_053505.jpg20221024_053517.jpg20221024_053530.jpg20221024_053539.jpg20221024_053645.jpg20221024_053941.jpg
 

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Heres my post svm45 though its in the i block and still has a waffenamts barrel and does anybody know what the letters behind serial number on frame are? Thanks
BH means BundesHeer. So your pistol saw usage among the Austrian Army post WWII. That is very typical for these pistols. French used German guns in their occupation zone in Austria and when leaving Austria they left almost all guns behind for the Austrian Army.
 
Second post for an a-prefix Spreewerk Berlin P.38 pistol. This one has markings on the front of the frame, see the last picture. Can anyone tell me what the meaning on those is?
Looks like the same type of post war unit marking seen applied across the top of some 98k.
 
Added post-Nazi markings all over attest to its travels before it landed in my local gun store.
Originally I did not intend my thread to become a picture collection of late P.38 pistols, but quite interesting what some come up with .. I once had one like yours too, it was NOS condition. And fully working. Yours with these stamp suggest to me that it was UK deactivated (or is this an UK proof stamp?).
 
The Spreewerks are nice. The a/b-prefix guns were thought to be the last pistols produced with the a-prefix obviously preceding the b-prefix. There were however, Zero-series Spreewerks produced at the same time as the a/b-prefix guns. It is thought that the Zero-series (instead of a letter preceding the serial number, a '0' came first) were produced for a separate contract, possibly the Volkssturm, since the Zero- series pistols did not contain the typical E/88 proof marks, but instead used a simple 'u' and frequently an 'M' on the right side of the slide as inspection proofs. No evidence has surfaced however as to the exact reason the Zero-series guns were being produced.

Many Zero series and a-prefix guns made it out the door and were captured, but very few, if any, of the b-prefix guns left the factory. They were virtually unknown in the P38 world here in the US until the Ukrainian imports in the early 2000's. Some collectors believe that all b-prefix guns are/were Russian captures. No one can say for sure. Many were though imported and not stamped with the dreaded 'X' bythe Russians, nor were they import marked. A certain importer, now long deceased, made sure of that.

To answer your question though, a full run of 10k a-prefix guns were produced. The Zero-series guns made it to about 8k IIRC and I believe the b-prefix guns only got to around 5k. So the b-prefix and Zero-series were indeed the very last ones being made. There were a very small number (believed to be around 100) double '00' prefix guns made. But these were thought to have been possibly made after the factory was overrun by the Russians.

The grip-strap marking on your pistol is reminiscent of the markings on German pistols from the Imperial/Weimar era. My guess is it shows police use by someone in the post-war period.

Last but not least, Spreewerk was in Grottau, an occupied area of Czechoslovakia, not Berlin.

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Thanks for your post!
The grip-strap marking on your pistol is reminiscent of the markings on German pistols from the Imperial/Weimar era. My guess is it shows police use by someone in the post-war period.
That is interesting. May I, based on this assumption, therefore indicate this a-prefix pistol at least then did not get captured by Russians at the factory?
 
Most (the vast majority) of Russian captured pistols will exhibit a couple of features that distinguish them. They will have the infamous Russian dip on them, and they will usually have some version of an 'X' stamped on the slide and/or frame. Dip is most telling on P38's because it produces a black/brown locking block (although this is not completely true for Spreewerk, since they blued many of their locking blocks) locking block pin, black trigger springs and a dark brown sear, as well as a smooth even finish throughout...almost as if the pistol were new.

If your pistol exhibits no signs above of being owned by the Russians, then possibly it was used by one of the various police/para-military/military organizations in East Germany or also possibly by the Czechs. Although both East German & Czech guns tended to be marked up in other ways to distinguish them from Russian 'captured' P38's.

Like all guns coming from that area & time period, you have to looks for clues in the markings and finishes of particulars guns. Yours does not exhibit any signs of being owned by the Russians, and unfortunately, unless other examples appear, the real meaning behind your grip strap stamp will remain a mystery.
 
Hello
French production starts again in block g. The first recorded example is 4g.
German controlled production stopped at block f but what is the highest listed number for these gray phantoms
There is this one, the 3094, a Dutch site speaks of a production of 3000 units in this block f
Have higher numbers been listed?
Thank's


 

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