identification of this stock.

[tonino7]

I have bought a byf44 with the stock in the photos : in my opinion the numbers are not correct , wrong font and position too , I suppose that a previous owner has "enhanced" his rifle matching the stock to the rest . May anyone confirm me that I was right changing this stock , putting now a Mauser produced stock to my byf K98? And , second question , for which factory is this stock correct? Maker phh , buttplate marked dwc wa642 , bajonet mount in the white or may be lightly parkerized , unfortunately no other visible markings , the stock was probaly sanded.
Any information will be appreciated , thanks!

 

[Pisgah]

A phh coded stock would have originally been on a dou coded rifle. With that external serial number, your stock was likely numbered to match the rifle by the East Germans. The East Germans tended to do high quality rebuilds and it can be easy to mistake their renumbering for wartime.

 

[johnmac]

What block letter designation is your rifle?

 

[tonino7]

the complete serial number is 3122a

 

[Pisgah]

Before switching stocks you should insure that your rifle was not East German rebuilt. A matching DDR rebuilt K98k is worth more than a stock mismatch wartime byf 44 K98k. The "A" block of byf 44 definitely would have originally had an internally numbered stock along with numbered bands, so no way to hide/correct it by replacing the stock. When you get a chance it would likely be to your benefit to post photos of the byf 44 metal to determine if it shows signs of a postwar rebuild. It is more likely that the externally numbered stock in your photos was done by the East Germans than by a humper.

 

[Turbo Archie]

Did they also number inside the channel?


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[Pisgah]

Did they also number inside the channel?


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He has photos of both the barrel channel numbers and the external serial numbers posted.

 

[tonino7]

Yes Archie , take a look at the first photo that i posted : the number is also inside the channel , but i don't like the font and the fact that the serial number is upside down respect to the other serials that I have seen inside K98 stocks . Then look at the difference between the maker's code and the serial : the code is faint respect to the serial number , my impression is that somebody has cancelled an old existing serial to put a new one over it , keeping the original maker's code.

 

[Turbo Archie]

. It is more likely that the externally numbered stock in your photos was done by the East Germans than by a humper.

Did they also number inside the channel?


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Lets try again....



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[Pisgah]

Lets try again....



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You lost me.

Are you asking if the East Germans were the ones who numbered the barrel channel AND the external? If so, the answer is likely yes. That stock was certainly not the original stock for any Mauser Oberndorf Kar.98k as assembled wartime. My only question here is whether they (the East Germans) also replaced/renumbered/marked the barreled action in any way, as if they did, it would be a waste of effort and money to replace the barreled action in a "correct" but mismatched wartime stock.

 

[Hambone]

What Pisgah said. However, it looks like there was an inspection on the wrist now removed/sanded off. If that was a depot/facility inspection, such as e/Mz 8, etc., it could be a stock off a legit German rework.

I've got about an unissued condition early bcd 4 that is external numbered on the stock, but original stock, with lined out and replaced and renumbered floorplate and sight parts that, without the rework/repair inspection markings could be a DDR. I reckon they used the same tools, dies, facilities, immediate postwar if they had them.

 

[Turbo Archie]

Thats what I was asking. I didn't think they would go through the trouble of numbering inside so that would mean it was fake.
I never took my DDR apart so I wasn't sure.



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[Pisgah]

Actually, I don't think the presence or absence of a serial number in the barrel channel means much. The Germans took the time to number in both locations until 1941-42. It is not unreasonable that the East Germans would have been just as meticulous. Communist or not, they were still German. I have several DDR rifles but it has been a while since I have had one apart.

Tonino7 should post some photos of the rifle in question so that we can stop conjecturing on it and make the call. If the purpose of his post was to determine who did it or why the stock is numbered as it is, it would take photos of the stock AND metal in order to put out much more than a guess. Without seeing photos of the entire rifle this was just a discussion on how could any (late war) K98k stock end up with external numbering. What HB stated is also true. There is a possibility that the rifle was a legit wartime depot rebuild, and if so, removing the numbered stock would really be a crime against humanity. At this point it could even be a wartime commercial rebuild (unlikely but possible). Without seeing the barreled action we would never know.

 

[tonino7]

As requested from Pisgah here you have some photos of the barreled action and of the complete rifle as is now with a correct Mauser 1944 stock ( don't worry , the stock of the discussion is here at home too , I am convinced that it was faked recently , but in the case I am ready to admit my mistake). As you see the action is with an original turret mount , unfortunately the bolt is mismatched , and i suppose the stock was too...
The shield before the serial number is the modern italian firing proof .

 

[Hambone]

Yep, at this point there is no way to know. The Germans, Nazi and DDR, would number the exterior of the stocks in a rework/rebuild process. 1942 and before they numbered them on the exterior AND interior. After that they numbered them on the interior only. Rework/repair, Nazi and DDR, they would number them on the exterior. I've got WW2 reworks/repairs with the same number stamped again over the exterior numbers. This merely meant that during the rework/repair THAT stock was being assembled with THAT rifle. Sometimes they used the original stock from the factory (hence the same numbers stamped multiple times) sometimes they used a replacement stock.

As Pisgah said, at this point the information on the subject stock is insufficient to determine much beyond what as been SWAGged so far.

 

[Pisgah]

I agree with what HB has posted. I don't see any obvious signs of DDR or any other rebuild on the barreled receiver. If the numbered stock was a faking attempt it was a pretty poor effort. At this point I don't think it will make much difference which stock you have on the rifle so you may as well choose whichever stock makes you happy. This rifle's (barreled receiver's) value is in its sniper status, so the stock shouldn't make much difference (considering the original wartime stock is gone).

 

[tonino7]

...This rifle's (barreled receiver's) value is in its sniper status, so the stock shouldn't make much difference (considering the original wartime stock is gone).

Well , I see a difference between the two stocks : the one that I am using now is unmessed ( no cancelled/restamped numbers , no sanding) and also is identical to the original wartime stock .
Thanks for all your useful observations

 

[Turbo Archie]

Well , I see a difference between the two stocks : the one that I am using now is unmessed

I like that stock!!





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[RickAmy2014]

A phh coded stock would have originally been on a dou coded rifle. With that external serial number, your stock was likely numbered to match the rifle by the East Germans. The East Germans tended to do high quality rebuilds and it can be easy to mistake their renumbering for wartime.

The stock looks like an oberndorf , wa135 stock....based on the "scallop" at the forward end of the bolt handle cut out.....one mans opinion

 

[Mauserguy85]

13 years later… better late than never lol