Gew 98 G.A.L. marking?

[MountainGew]

Hey all,

I was browsing some completed auctions and came across this Gew 98 with the stock marked with a huge G.A.L. cartouche. Does anyone know what that means and what it's from?

 

[AndyB]

Is it really GAL?, looks more like CAL. which could be Caliber with missing designation.

 

[Loewe]

This subject marking was of some interest to CB and he said he owned M83 RR so marked; further there was a Erfurt/15 with said mark that CB linked too but I couldn't find it in a search of trends (most valuable as the folder probably has CB's thoughts on origin.

I did find two actual rifles and will post what I have, one is a HH auction, the other a Erfurt/18

 

[Loewe]

1918 Erfurt 1255 p - a second picture is in a word document that won't upload here- PM me with a email address if you want it... it has a clear view of the G.A.L

Position: 1307

Karabiner 98 a, Erfurt 1918​

Startpreis 400 EUR

Ergebnis:​

430 EUR

Beschreibung​

Kal. 8 x 57, Nr. 1255p. Nummerngleich inkl. Schrauben bis auf Seitengewehrhalter. Fast blanker Lauf. Div. kaiserliche Abnahmen. Originale, fleckige Brünierung, partiell wenige, feine Närbchen. Buchenschaft mit geringen Tragespuren, Haarriss am Kolbenhals. Rechts am Kolben unbekannter, kopfstehender Brandstempel "C.A.L.". Beriemung. Montiert der seltene Mündungsschoner. Länge 110 cm. Erwerbsscheinpflichtig.

Kategorie: DEUTSCHES KAISERREICH

 

[Loewe]

1917 Amberg 8136 b G.A.L

 

[Loewe]

Found the 2013 email, CB owned an Erfurt/15 98a and a M83 RR so marked, few details otherwise. He and I were discussing a potential article though CB was hesitant as so few facts were known but he discussed a brief article searching out potential clues or other small arms discoveries (build a database of opinions and a fact or two... })

An early outline that never got much further as facts were so scarce and the MRJ ended before he finished it:

Below is an outline of his thoughts; this is only for potential leads and examples to further answers or examples. Constructive thoughts welcome as I would like to take this further as I suspect he would like to discover the facts (and more examples); He spoke to Wolfgang but said little about his thoughts.


Sent: Tuesday, May 21, 2013 12:44 PM

Subject: More on the Grenz Abteilung Laufenburg



Making more progress:

Site initially supplied power to German & Swiss municipalities; post-WWI to French as well.

Evidently a French sabotage team succeeded in placing demolition charges in 1916 but they went off prematurely (sic).

Unclear if the GAL was set up prior to or consequent to this attempt. The K98 1917 may indicate consequent setup or upgrading of security after the attempt.

Initial guard unit Landsturm and (later? 1916+?) 20-40 regulars.

Powerplant a joint German/Swiss operation; Nazis wanted to nationalise but never pulled it off. Secret discussions between Germans & Swiss about what to do if bombed; both worried more about downstream flooding than anything else (cf. Möhne, Oder, Sorpe "dambuster" RAF) raids. At least one joint air raid drill conducted.

At end of war Hitler demolition order thwarted; apparently by plant personnel, local (Army?) guards and Swiss all working together.

Many more details required.

Good example of "what if it could talk."

Have to poke Heinrich for more local research.

-CB

 

[AndyB]

G.A.L. is separated by dots, so its certainly something that denote which could be unit, location or owner?
By the 8136 Amberg 1917 is strange there is a Hza Ingolstadt on pistol grip which means it would be unreal a rifle with Lange sights refurbished in HZA??
Personally from form of first letter i would tend here to C.A.L. as both parts looks identical of letter C, by G would be the lower right end moved inside into letter.

 

[cj556]

This subject marking was of some interest to CB and he said he owned M83 RR so marked; further there was a Erfurt/15 with said mark that CB linked too but I couldn't find it in a search of trends (most valuable as the folder probably has CB's thoughts on origin.

I did find two actual rifles and will post what I have, one is a HH auction, the other a Erfurt/18

Paul this was the rifle CB referenced: https://www.libertytreecollectors.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=8143

 

[Loewe]

Paul this was the rifle CB referenced: https://www.libertytreecollectors.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=8143

Thanks CJ! It was recorded before and attributed to CB in my database but not in the GAL folder! I will post what I can here, also the buttplate flat marking.

 

[Loewe]

G.A.L. is separated by dots, so its certainly something that denote which could be unit, location or owner?
By the 8136 Amberg 1917 is strange there is a Hza Ingolstadt on pistol grip which means it would be unreal a rifle with Lange sights refurbished in HZA??
Personally from form of first letter i would tend here to C.A.L. as both parts looks identical of letter C, by G would be the lower right end moved inside into letter.

the 17 / Erfurt buttplate sports a distinct "G" but I see your point on the stocked marked. More to follow because CJ link pulled up a reported but misplaced GAL. I had hesitated to respond to this thread but CJ proved me wrong!

 

[Loewe]

WWI GERMAN KAR 98A MAUSER RIFLE-ERFURT 1915-MATCH ​	Auction # 333910794
	This item has been Sold!

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Click to view	Current Bid	$577.50 No Reserve!		Started at	$149.00
Quantity	1		# of bids	18 Bid History
Time left	Listing has Ended 15 minute rule		Location	Copenhagen, NY 13626-3189
Start	3/27/2013 9:00:00 PM ET (This is a 7 day auction)
Ends On or After	4/3/2013 9:00:00 PM ET (GunBroker.com Official Time)
Seller	sreisel A+(9829) View the feedback of this seller | View seller's other auctions | Ask seller a question
Winning Bidder	Brummbar A+(44)
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Payment Methods	Money Order / Certified Check, Personal Check, See Item Description
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Inspection Period / Return Policy	Three Days from the date the item is received
Item Condition	Used
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This auction has ended This page is only available for a limited time. Please print or save a copy for your records.​ Seller: sreisel Buyer: Brummbar Quantity: 1 ​ Instructions for the seller and winning bidder: Contact each other. We have already sent the buyer and the seller an email message containing the other party's contact information. If you have not received your email, you can click on the other party's user name above to send a message. Our User Agreement requires that you contact each other within five (5) calendar days to make payment and shipping arrangements. Once the transaction has been completed (i.e., payment has been made and the item received by the buyer) you can leave feedback on the other party. Buyer - click here to leave feedback on seller The Seller should contact each winning bidder (the Buyer) with information on the total cost of the purchase including shipping and sales tax if applicable. The Seller should tell the Buyer where to send payment and what payment methods are acceptable. The Buyer must send payment directly to the Seller. If the item is a modern firearm, the Buyer (or the Buyer's firearms transfer dealer) must send a signed FFL copy to the Seller. The Buyer should provide the FFL information to the Seller within fourteen (14) calendar days. Failure to provide proper FFL information in time may result in the Buyer receiving negative feedback and/or a Non-Paying Bidder warning, either of which can lead to suspension, and the Buyer will lose their rights as the winning bidder. Once payment is received the seller will ship the item to the buyer, or to the Buyer's transfer dealer (FFL) in the case of modern firearms. This auction is a binding contract between the Seller and the Buyer(s). If the Seller is unable to contact a Buyer within five (5) calendar days of the end of the auction, the Buyer forfeits his/her rights as a winning bidder. A Buyer who fails to complete a transaction may receive negative feedback and/or a Non-Paying Bidder warning, either of which can lead to suspension from GunBroker.com.

Description for Item # 333910794

Very good condition WWI Imperial German KAR 98a Mauser rifle in 8mm that was built by Erfurt Arsenal in 1917, as marked on the receiver. This tough to find gun is NOT import marked and has all matching serial numbers right down to the screws except for the bolt, which is all matching to itself. Rear sight and both band screws are replacements. Metal finish is all blue and plum brown, bore is fine and bright with strong rifling. Stock has original finish and was buffed long ago, shows some normal handling marks. Has a good clear matching serial number cartouche under the buttstock and good visible Imperial German proof mark cartouches in the buttstock. Top of buttstock has a small tight crack. Stock has a repaired duffle cut under the rear band. Buttplate has a hand stamped name, possibly that of a soldier who brought this gun home. Overall a nice representative KAR 98a Mauser that will make a fine addition to your collection.

Pictures for Item # 333910794

 

[Loewe]

Part II 2013 auction won by CB (Brummbar)

 

[Loewe]

Part III

 

[Loewe]

Jan Still's site 2012

07-12-2012, 02:27 AM #1

Frink

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1883 RR Unit Marks to decode, "G.A.LAUF." and "B.l.F.M"

I am getting pretty good at deciphering the common unit marks, but can't figure these out on a 1883 Reichsrevolver up for auction.

Any ideas?

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07-12-2012, 04:24 PM #2



refurb

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The 1st one has something to do with Guard Artillery. The 2nd one is Bayerisches Feld Artillerie Regiment 11 leichte Munitionskolonne (Feld Haubitzen) Waffe Nr.61. 3rd one is for a Bayerisches Feld Artillreie Regiment Erstaz Batterie

Dow Cross

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07-12-2012, 06:02 PM #3



bruno38

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Lauf for Laufenburg? --- B.

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12-04-2012, 12:29 AM #4



CBrown

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Two of these G.A. LAUF. M83s have turned up recently; I really don't think that the mark has anything to do with the Guard Artillery; perhaps an as-yet unidentified police, gendarmerie or even borderguard outfit.

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12-07-2012, 08:54 AM #5

Heinrich

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It has taken some time until I found people in the Laufenburg area who were able to tell me some details.
The G.A. means "Grenz-Abteilung"
LAUF. is really Laufenburg, a nice small old town directly at the Swiss border.
The reason to post such a unit is interesting.
At the beginning of WW I the German CI service investigated that French sabotage troops were planning to destroy the Rhein water power station Rheinfelden close to Laufenburg. The power station supplied electricity since October 2nd 1914. This power was delivered to important plants in the area and also to the important Mauser factory.
The reaction was that a guard for the power station was posted.
This guard together with the customs guard at the bridge to Switzerland was armed inter alia with the revolver M/83.
At that time some units were already armed with the P 08 and so some revolvers M/83 were shipped from different units to the G.A. in Laufenburg.

Heinrich

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12-07-2012, 11:57 PM #6



donmaus

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Heinrich, great detective work! I love it when one of these obscure markings gets identified and especially so when it comes with a fascinating history.

Bruno, you were on the right track --- again!

Best regards,
Don
donmaus1@aol.com

Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936
Updated at: www.historywritinsteel.com

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04-04-2013, 01:20 PM #7



CBrown

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A Kar 98A has just surfaced with G.A.LAUF. stamped along the right side of the buttplate. H. Harder has advised in a PM that he could find no Waffenetat in the Laufenburg archives, but the outfit was probably small.

 

[Loewe]

1539. German KAR 98A Bolt Action Carbine by Erfurt with Unit Marking

Click on images for enlarged versions.​

​ Zoom ​

serial #1947d, 8mm Mauser, 24" barrel with a very good bore that shows scattered frosting and a few pits but strong rifling. The metal surfaces of this 1917-dated carbine have turned a dull gray patina with fading throughout, scattered silvering and oxidation staining. The beech stock rates good plus with an added oil finish, few scattered cracks on the butt, a repaired 1" crack on rear of handguard, strong Imperial cartouches, scattered dings, abrasions and scratches. The buttplate is proud of the wood, the triggerguard screws are un-numbered, the bolt parts and rear sight are mismatched but the remaining visible parts are matching. There is a unit marking on the buttplate which reads "G.A.L. A.U.F." and this is a solid example of an Imperial 98a carbine overall. (207879-42) {C&R} [Craig Brown Collection] (500/700)

 

[Loewe]

Apologies for the formatting and view but transferring Word docs tothe forum is messy and I do not possess pc skills... for those interested muddle through or pm for the word docs...

 

[AndyB]

Thanks for explanation the buttplate marking is correct G.A.LAUF. which should be as You mentioned Grenz Abteilung Laufenburg, its on Erfurt marked Kar98AZ with missmatch bavarian bolt, the other in previous answers presented Erfurt 1918 Kar98AZ 1255p and Amberg Gew.98 8136b could have a shortened variation marking on this, with G looking as C. letter, and no more explained L for Laufenburg. Anyway by Gew98 from Amberg is strange HZA Ingolstadt marking which should be post 1930 in reality probably and why a Laufenburg Grenz Abteilung would be have a bavarian reworked rifle, when the Laufenburg is in area of Baden -Wurttemberg/Swiss border? I would think is more real to move the piece into Bayern and to town Laufen near border to Austria. The burn stamping on buttstock is typical for Bavarian EWB and PWB. But i dont known about this Border units, anyone have confirmation that the G.A. are really for Grenz Abteilung? It should be a part of custom? also under supervision of RFV ? there was a LandesGrenzpolizei and Zollgrenzschutz.

 

[Loewe]

Andy, I have developed few conclusions and think any facts would have to discovered by German speaking collectors - US has some of the best too, though Vlim i think is Dutch? he is the Loewe expert...., - in my opinion pistol collectors generally have the best researchers and have for many decades (on obscure subjects like this anyway, they are not especially good with rifle mysteries but they have the some of the best researchers on units and manufacturers that were involved with pistols, like Loewe-DWM, some are extraordinarily resourceful)

 

[MountainGew]

Whoa, that's a lot of fascinating information. Definitely some mystery behind this but if I'm understanding right it sounds like it's essentially a unit marking for the Laufenburg power plant guards during WW1 and through WW2?

 

[Loewe]

Whoa, that's a lot of fascinating information. Definitely some mystery behind this but if I'm understanding right it sounds like it's essentially a unit marking for the Laufenburg power plant guards during WW1 and through WW2?

I think we know very little, but some possibilities are intriguing... as for the main theory it seems revolve around a dam that was Swiss but tied to German interests, -power and catastrophic flooding if the French damaged it (which seems a stretch in WWI that France or Germany would violate Swiss neutrality for such dubious potential gains -Hitler was capable of anything but both sides benefited from Swiss neutrality in both wars...though it didn't stop violations of Swiss airspace)

Seems far fetched to me but so does so much of history does...

In short these are all theories which rest on a few rifles and pistols but it sure has several well-regarded backers, or seemingly did?