First G98-1916 Simson & Co Gewehr 98 5677f. Any advice is appreciated

[garrom_56]

Hi all, I recently bought this Simson gewehr 98, which came with an original bayonet and what looks to be a period sling, off GB and would love to learn more about the markings. This rifle is all matching, except for the bolt and cleaning rod, and appears to have a mid range serial number for 1916. The bayonet has markings from a reserve battalion. What’s the best way to maintain and store this rifle long term that prevents any more rust from forming on the receiver? I picked up a midway silicone sock-would storing the rifle in this, (along with a light coating of ballistol on the receiver and bore), prevent rust? Some of the markings are very faint. Any info is greatly appreciated, thanks!

 

[garrom_56]

More pics:

 

[Loewe]

This is actually a late 1916 production rifle, made for Saxony and this falls into the starting beech stocks for Simson. Quite decent example, though a common range for Simson (as far as Simson is common... generally a rare maker, though not to rare in this condition and range but still belter than most 1916 makers- which are not uncommon - had the bolt been factory it would really standout!)

Care is less you do the better, but environmental issues are the only real must to preserving value.

 

[garrom_56]

This is actually a late 1916 production rifle, made for Saxony and this falls into the starting beech stocks for Simson. Quite decent example, though a common range for Simson (as far as Simson is common... generally a rare maker, though not to rare in this condition and range but still belter than most 1916 makers- which are not uncommon - had the bolt been factory it would really standout!)

Care is less you do the better, but environmental issues are the only real must to preserving value.

Thank you for this info and advice! Shoot, I thought I had something a bit rarer for a second. What would you estimate the value of this example to be? could this rifle have been produced during the 3rd quarter of 1916?

 

[chrisftk]

Thank you for this info and advice! Shoot, I thought I had something a bit rarer for a second. What would you estimate the value of this example to be? could this rifle have been produced during the 3rd quarter of 1916?

Simsons are one of the tougher makers, but to Loewe's point, With the bolt not matching and the metal condition such as it is, the value takes a hit. I never turn up my nose at a nice bolt mismatch as long as the price is right. I would value this at around $1,000 +/-. The bayonet is a neat wartime marking. $300 add-on, IMO.

It looks like it was harshly cleaned at some point, I can see some possible scratches on the receiver from an abrasive; (I advocate for nothing harder than brass when cleaning these, it's harder than rust, softer than steel and bluing; you'd be amazed what oil, brass and some elbow grease will do) that can hurt the value of it too. Many of us own rifles that have been harshly cleaned, it just generally causes a corresponding down tick in value.

For long-term storage, I would advocate just making sure it's well oiled (apply oil and wipe off the excess) and check it again once a year or so. I think there's a lot of "clutching of the pearls" with regard to these things disintegrating if you don't do a bunch of intrusive care. I keep the maintenance basic and have never had any issues with deterioration.

With regards of the markings, the crown/script letters are acceptance marks indicating that the part was inspected. The eagle on the left side of the receiver is a fireproof; evidence for live fire testing at an increased load to satisfy the legal requirements for safety and soundness. Fireproofs varied depending on the maker, state, time period, etc. This particular fireproof is indicative of the Saxon army. They used a very distinctive eagle compared to the Prussians. The crown/FA on the stock is the royal cypher of King Friedrich August III of Saxony.

Either way, congratulations.

 

[PrayingMantis]

Thanks for posting this here. Simsons are always good to see and i'll out it in the reference. It was produced towards the end of the year. Hard to say when exactly, because i'm not sure of how consistent Simson's rifle output was, but it was probably in the last few months of the year.

I'll only echo what Chris says. From the auction photos it didn't look scratched, but from yours it looks like someone overcleaned it with something abrasive like steel wool, which really sucks. If you were unaware from the auction photos you might inquire with the seller to see if you can get some money back, because that knocks a good bit off the value. But it's still decent and worth keeping. Long term, only keep it oiled in a stable environment--no need to do anything excessive--and check on it regularly.

 

[garrom_56]

Simsons are one of the tougher makers, but to Loewe's point, With the bolt not matching and the metal condition such as it is, the value takes a hit. I never turn up my nose at a nice bolt mismatch as long as the price is right. I would value this at around $1,000 +/-. The bayonet is a neat wartime marking. $300 add-on, IMO.

It looks like it was harshly cleaned at some point, I can see some possible scratches on the receiver from an abrasive; (I advocate for nothing harder than brass when cleaning these, it's harder than rust, softer than steel and bluing; you'd be amazed what oil, brass and some elbow grease will do) that can hurt the value of it too. Many of us own rifles that have been harshly cleaned, it just generally causes a corresponding down tick in value.

For long-term storage, I would advocate just making sure it's well oiled (apply oil and wipe off the excess) and check it again once a year or so. I think there's a lot of "clutching of the pearls" with regard to these things disintegrating if you don't do a bunch of intrusive care. I keep the maintenance basic and have never had any issues with deterioration.

With regards of the markings, the crown/script letters are acceptance marks indicating that the part was inspected. The eagle on the left side of the receiver is a fireproof; evidence for live fire testing at an increased load to satisfy the legal requirements for safety and soundness. Fireproofs varied depending on the maker, state, time period, etc. This particular fireproof is indicative of the Saxon army. They used a very distinctive eagle compared to the Prussians. The crown/FA on the stock is the royal cypher of King Friedrich August III of Saxony.

Either way, congratulations.

Hey thanks for your detailed response, especially concerning markings! That’s too bad on the receiver, my eagerness for a simson clouded my judgment on this one

 

[garrom_56]

Thanks for posting this here. Simsons are always good to see and i'll out it in the reference. It was produced towards the end of the year. Hard to say when exactly, because i'm not sure of how consistent Simson's rifle output was, but it was probably in the last few months of the year.

I'll only echo what Chris says. From the auction photos it didn't look scratched, but from yours it looks like someone overcleaned it with something abrasive like steel wool, which really sucks. If you were unaware from the auction photos you might inquire with the seller to see if you can get some money back, because that knocks a good bit off the value. But it's still decent and worth keeping. Long term, only keep it oiled in a stable environment--no need to do anything excessive--and check on it regularly.

Thanks for your response and adding this to the reference! That’s a shame to hear regarding the receiver, it did look untouched from the listing. If I may, how much value do you think is knocked off because of the receiver?

 

[PrayingMantis]

Thanks for your response and adding this to the reference! That’s a shame to hear regarding the receiver, it did look untouched from the listing. If I may, how much value do you think is knocked off because of the receiver?

Hard to say for sure, and cleaned metal is better than sanded wood. For myself, and maybe some here will agree with me, cleaned metal with visible abrasions can knock 25-33% off value.

 

[garrom_56]

Hard to say for sure, and cleaned metal is better than sanded wood. For myself, and maybe some here will agree with me, cleaned metal with visible abrasions can knock 25-33% off value.

That’s good to hear, the stock seems to be original. that sucks, at least the bayonet and sling may help make up for the difference. I’ll have to reach out to the seller and see if I can get a partial refund. I ended up paying close to 2k for the ensemble after shipping and tax, hopefully I didn’t overpay too much. How severe do you think the abrasions are on this receiver?

 

[chrisftk]

That’s good to hear, the stock seems to be original. that sucks, at least the bayonet and sling may help make up for the difference. I’ll have to reach out to the seller and see if I can get a partial refund. I ended up paying close to 2k for the ensemble after shipping and tax, hopefully I didn’t overpay too much. How severe do you think the abrasions are on this receiver?

If you paid 2K, You overpaid by a decent amount, in my opinion. Subtract $300 off for the bayonet, so at $1,700.

A nice, pristine bolt-only mismatch 16 Simson is probably a $13-1400 gun. Apply a 25% deduction to that and that would be about where I would value it. My opinion, of course.

 

[garrom_56]

If you paid 2K, You overpaid by a decent amount, in my opinion. Subtract $300 off for the bayonet, so at $1,700.

A nice, pristine bolt-only mismatch 16 Simson is probably a $13-1400 gun. Apply a 25% deduction to that and that would be about where I would value it. My opinion, of course.

Scheisse