Third Party Press

Does bring back paperwork and owner documentation really add value to a P08?

C

Casualk98collector

Active member
Ive been contacted by a gentleman selling a P08 Luger. The gun itself appears to be in good service condition. I have not yet had a chance to look over the gun and have only seen 2-3 pictures of it, none of them showing much other than left and right side. Lets just assume its a run of the mill P08. What makes this unique is the current owner also has the tons of original documents on the gun. The sale comes with original bring back paperwork, as well as a ton of personally named paperwork of the vet who brought it home. (Discharge paperwork, award paperwork, various personal effects). As a CL1 dealer Im looking to buy this gun for resale. I know the saying is 'buy the gun, not the story'.....unless you can prove it, and in this case its a solid, documented vet bring back. Does all the paperwork really add any resale value to the gun? (I know the gun market well, I know what Id offer for just the firearm, but I dont know if there is a market for a gun with this much documentation)

Edit: Gun is a 1912 Erfurt, numbers matching except magazine
 
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I agree. It means more to some collectors than it does others. Collectors who were very active say before 2000 and part those who collected in the 1960s-80s know that there was nothing unusual about buying guns directly from vets. I guess the answer is; how much the potential buyer cares about the vet, given there appears to be no anecdotal information about how the gun was obtained by him.
 
This one may slip back into obscurity. The current owner and I discussed price. Hes asking about 2K more than its worth. I appreciate lineage of the gun, but that paperwork doesnt add another 2K to the resale value of the gun. Oh well, nothing lost, nothing gained.
 
The paperwork becomes particularly important if the former owner was famous or participated in a well-known battle or campaign. The provenance must then link the hardware to the owner. Let's say someone claims to have a Marine Corps M1941 Johnson semiautomatic rifle that saw service in the South Pacific. Without some kind of authentication, the piece is just another M1941.
 
Casualk98collector said:
This one may slip back into obscurity. The current owner and I discussed price. Hes asking about 2K more than its worth. I appreciate lineage of the gun, but that paperwork doesnt add another 2K to the resale value of the gun. Oh well, nothing lost, nothing gained.
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That’s just a real greedy seller, walk away. It’s not the only Luger out there. Then you have to ask, were the papers real or fake?
I have never paid more for a vet bring back with provenance.
 
Winchester Cowboy said:
That’s just a real greedy seller, walk away. It’s not the only Luger out there. Then you have to ask, were the papers real or fake?
I have never paid more for a vet bring back with provenance.
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The paperwork was legit. The bring back papers were issued to 'Joe Soldier', as well as pay stubs, award documents and DD214 to the same guy. The seller wasnt necessarily being greedy, he just didnt know any better. He just went on the internet, saw how much high end Lugers were going for and thought 'well, mines worth that too'. Thats the problem with GB, guys only think to search the 'for sale' and dont pay attention to how many bids there really are. I told this guy exactly what he had and made him an offer that would have allowed me to make a profit (I am a dealer, business is business) Sadly, our numbers were so far apart that he just felt insulted and never got back to me. The real shame here is that this gun is going to get stuck back in a closet again, probably to be discovered (and disposed of) by a next generation.
 
I think this question is one of the oldest out there. I did quite a bit of research on it at one point, it does add value and if the original bring-back certificate with no extraordinary information about the vet adds roughly 10% to the value.
 
fishermankw said:
I think this question is one of the oldest out there. I did quite a bit of research on it at one point, it does add value and if the original bring-back certificate with no extraordinary information about the vet adds roughly 10% to the value.
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And this is again assuming it’s the original bring back document and not a copy of the original. For some reason some families got in the habit of selling it with a copy of the document but keeping the original for themselves. Makes sense as long as you don’t think about it.
 
fishermankw said:
And this is again assuming it’s the original bring back document and not a copy of the original. For some reason some families got in the habit of selling it with a copy of the document but keeping the original for themselves. Makes sense as long as you don’t think about it.
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All the paperwork was original. They were not photocopies or mimeographs but Army originals. I didnt take into account any of the personal effects such as pins, patches and photographs as these items are just 'trinkets' and could be assembled anywhere and have little monetary value. Honestly, the bring back papers were worn from being folded and had some holes in it. You cant fake that kind of authenticity (Ok, sure you can if you are a special effects movie guy or some shiet, but there was SO much paperwork included that I knew it was all legit) I dont question the authenticity. Only 10% value for papers, huh? Well thats good to know. I honestly wanted to argue that number with you, but then I realized, 'Whats the difference between a non import marked gun and gun with vet papers? Just the Paper.'
 
I think original bring back papers definitely add value. There is one collector on the P38 forum that focuses on papered bring backs. Everyone thinks their weapon is a vet bring back but where’s the proof? Was it just a pre 68 import and not import marked ? The papers, if correct and legit, prove it was an actual vet connected bring back. Then its researchable as to who he was, what theatre he was in, what unit, what battles etc. If he is still alive, rare now, get a video of him talking about how he acquired it.

The hard part is how much value to add. There are a lot of factors: was the person famous like an Easy Co vet? Then I could see it doubling, tripling or more on the price of an item. An average GI? Maybe 10-15%? Some people are super interested in specific battles. A sword from Guadal canal, a pistol from the the bulge etc could make a higher price acceptable to a specific collector.

Bottom line is they aren’t bringing any more back, at least legit ones so with all the fakes, and BS stories out there, I only see legit paperEd items becoming more important and valuable to future collectors
 
The reality is that the form itself tells one nothing regarding the actual origin or circumstances of how the items were obtained. They do document the vets name and unit along with the date the form was signed. Assuming the item(s) listed are serial numbered (most items are not) then the items can at least be tied to the few facts of ID listed above but if they are not serial numbered you really can not even tie the items to the document in most cases. I’ve never quite understand what the big difference is between a Luger that came off of a turn in pile won in a poker game in September 1945 in camp lucky strike and one “imported” from a arms store house of surrender weapons in Norway or fill in the blank anywhere Europe in say 1955? Actually both are imports as they were not made here.
 
Casualk98collector said:
Ive been contacted by a gentleman selling a P08 Luger. The gun itself appears to be in good service condition. I have not yet had a chance to look over the gun and have only seen 2-3 pictures of it, none of them showing much other than left and right side. Lets just assume its a run of the mill P08. What makes this unique is the current owner also has the tons of original documents on the gun. The sale comes with original bring back paperwork, as well as a ton of personally named paperwork of the vet who brought it home. (Discharge paperwork, award paperwork, various personal effects). As a CL1 dealer Im looking to buy this gun for resale. I know the saying is 'buy the gun, not the story'.....unless you can prove it, and in this case its a solid, documented vet bring back. Does all the paperwork really add any resale value to the gun? (I know the gun market well, I know what Id offer for just the firearm, but I dont know if there is a market for a gun with this much documentation)

Edit: Gun is a 1912 Erfurt, numbers matching except magazine
Click to expand...

I would recommend posting you question on this page - https://www.lugerforums.com/
 
Winchester Cowboy said:
That’s just a real greedy seller, walk away. It’s not the only Luger out there. Then you have to ask, were the papers real or fake?
I have never paid more for a vet bring back with provenance.
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I agree with this, to me its just another luger. I mean the bring back papers are cool and it does adds to the history of the Luger and to the person that brought it back , but I don't think it should add more value to it...
its like the classic car world were they will look for any means to jack up the price to make more $, like a sales receipt, or some ugly a$$ color combo that only two people wanted.
In the end its just another Luger or car etc.
 
Capture papers with the serial number for the item in question for a serious collector do add value, roughly 10-15%.
 
The reality is the more provenance that it attached to a historical item, the more many collectors will pay for it. If this Luger had legit papers linked to a vet who was at the bulge, many would add a premium to that. If it was a 101st or 82nd vet from the bulge, the price would go up, Easy Co vet, even more, etc.

The difference is like steak to me. A filet mignon from a random cow at the butcher is great, free range black angus better, wagu, now theres a premium. A tenderloin from a deer out of my woods that I shot? Well that’s gonna win every time with me.
 
RoscoeTurner said:
Capture papers with the serial number for the item in question for a serious collector do add value, roughly 10-15%.
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It’s all in how you sweet talk the seller with a bottle of Jack!
I can chisel that 15% down to 0% in no time.
You’re a real Houdini magician when you can get into the negative (-) percentages Lol
 
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