Danzig 1906 Gewehr 98 Mauser

Ghostrider5211

Active member
Purchased yesterday at a small militaria show. 1906 Danzig Gewehr 98 Mauser. $350. I'd like to know about the unit markings on the disc, and am very excited to delve into the knowledge base here! This is my second Mauser, I also have a 1941 Sauer and Sohn, captured in the Balkans.

It won't let me post more than 5 photos, so if there is interest, I will attempt to post more pictures once I get enough posts in to start posting more pictures. This rifle serial number is 773 and is all matching save for the bolt, which is force matched and matches itself.
 

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More pics.
 

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Markings continued.
 

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Serial numbers and proof markings continued.
 

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It never ends!
 

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Sorry for the duplicates in the last reply.
 

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Great rifle!

the unit markings would indicate that this rifle was used by the "Infanterie-Regiment Herzog Ferdinand von Braunschweig (8. Westfälisches) Nr.57" and was part of the "14. Division" from the "VII Armeekorps".

The second "R" and the absence of a company number shows, that this rifle was used in the Rekruten-Depot. This was a sort of training facility unit.


The regiment itself was founded on the 05.05.1860. First stationed in Wesel and later in Hannover and then Wesel again.


With kind regards

Vincent
 
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Love the rifle. The pre WWI dates are desirable, particularly in good shape. You did well.
 
Great rifle!

the unit markings would indicate that this rifle was used by the "Infanterie-Regiment Herzog Ferdinand von Braunschweig (8. Westfälisches) Nr.57" and was part of the "14. Division" from the "VII Armeekorps".

The second "R" and the absence of a company number shows, that this rifle was used in the Rekruten-Depot. This was a sort of training facility unit.


The regiment itself was founded on the 05.05.1860. First stationed in Wesel and later in Hannover and then Wesel again.


With kind regards

Vincent

I read about this division in one of my books. It got its head kicked in at Verdun! Recruiting depot huh? Makes sense that this weapon got stuck at a depot I suppose, it was already 8 years old when war broke out. However, it doesn't seem to make sense to me that the Germans would put a perfectly fine rifle in a place where it can do no good. Did the rifle always stay in the depot? Did the recruit keep it with him when he left for the front? Was the depot a staging area? I have read that the depots followed the regiment and was an area for training inbound troops on the latest combat techniques in the trenches. Sometimes if you got really unlucky you wound up fighting without finishing your training at the depot!

I'm new to everything here, trying to learn. It is quite something to have a piece directly linked to such a storied regiment!
 
You did excellent for $350! It's a very nice original example. The bolt was renumbered during a rework, cool thing is it was paired with a Danzig bolt. If I had to guess I would say it was from a 1907 Danzig, the acceptance looks similar to one I used to have. Paul will be able to key it in for sure though.
 
Is the bolt typical for one of these? They restamped just the body, and left the remaining parts alone. It makes sense, from a functional perspective, but the Germans never seemed content with "functional" when it came to numbering parts.
 
It is an exceptional value at the price paid, you really got a bargain. This rifle is interesting on a number of points too..

The unit marking pairs with another rifle in the same block, though a line regiment. About a year ago Danzig/1906 565 b, unit 57.R.9.236 was observed on one of the forums, maybe an auction. I didn't save where. This characteristic, unit marked rifles being grouped is well established, mostly with the Kar.98a, but in a number of cases, like this one, the trend continues. Unfortunately, G98's in original, unaltered condition, are much more elusive than K98a. Rifle 565 b looks much like yours, a bringback, a little abused/neglected, but original. It has an original matching bolt.

Sam is entirely correct, this bolt probably came out of a Danzig/1907, we know this because the FP is right for this range and C/S is first seen at Danzig in 1907. Though very early in the first block, so the bolt could even be a later Danzig/1906 bolt, but either way, the combination of FP and acceptance, and font style all suggest this bolt came out of a 1906-1907 Danzig G98. Perhaps it was a rifle also of the same regiment, though impossible to say. I do think that these early rifles were delivered in batches to regiments, at least small batches, as that is what unit marking trends show with the K98a.

Lastly, Danzig/06 is a pretty good year, not a lot were made, there is a report up to the e-block, but I doubt the rifle was made by Danzig in 1906 (serialing and FP suggest another, acceptance is not shown though to confirm either way, without acceptance the finisher is impossible to say), the trends suggest the mid b-block was probably the highest confirmed range.
 
Yes, this is normal, the Germans in the Imperial and interwar era were "German", meaning they had German characteristics of frugality, responsibility, diligence - but extremely pragmatic. Rifles were not fully interchangeable, so they numbered all the components at manufacture, they educated their soldiers to keep them this way (you see it in the cleaning methods of period pictures); when repaired, the armorers almost always numbered two components, if replaced, the bolt body and stock (the key components). Sometimes they would number more, but they generally followed patterns.

In the interwar era they were especially frugal and pragmatic, they had to be with a strong socialist element in government, which early on was in near complete control, - which coupled with an aggressive IAMCC and hostile neighbors, made them a little more accepting of military needs (had the French, Belgians and Poles been more rational, pragmatic, the socialists would probably have done much of the work for them...). You see this in the rifles with significant use of recycled parts, use of "old-new" receivers, meaning receivers left over from WWI that were never used and later built into rifles at ordnance depots. Germany did largely abide by Versailles, they disarmed themselves, destroyed millions of rifles, confirmed by the IAMCC, but they (the Army, paramilitary groups, some companies etc.. Mauser and others were caught a number of times with illegal weapons or components, probably more due to a financial interest than a desire to hide arms) did what they could, which meant they hid what could be hidden, the so-called black rifles and key components, - receivers and barrels being the critical components of a rifle, they hid them, which were probably easier than whole rifles. The other methods, using the Dutch and friendly neighbors, Soviet Union, Swiss and Swede's is well known and written about.

The National Socialists, being pigs and ideological murderers, didn't carry forward these traits, they were wasteful and incompetent leftists (thieves and gangsters), - fascists, which means they were socialists that respected nothing beyond their ideology (complete subordination of its citizens to the state, - or actually the "leader"), they played on nationalism, revenge, fear and a perversion of German culture, amplifying elements that suited their agenda, suppressed others that were inconvenient, and they co-opted the pillars of society. They didn't destroy capitalism, remove industry from private ownership, they simply placed absolute control over it; they didn't destroy religion, they tolerated it and forced compliance and subservience to the state... you see this in the rifles themselves, everything new, very little salvaging and when reworked, they used new components. They were as careless with resources as much as they were lives, nothing mattered but the state, or their "leader", they were an entire society hijacked by a cult and they acted like it.

Today there is a great deal of resemblance in our society today, worshiping leaders (look at they way people practically worship obama, hillary, sanders and trump...this is incredibly dangerous), supremacy of the state (central government), suppression of individuality, mocking values and faith. It is almost funny looking back at the period, reading in books of the period (1940s-1970s) that characterize Germans as genetically predisposed to such a cult as Hitlerism, these men were arrogant fools, because it is in human nature itself, the world is full of would be Hitlers and millions of delusional fools that will follow them.

Is the bolt typical for one of these? They restamped just the body, and left the remaining parts alone. It makes sense, from a functional perspective, but the Germans never seemed content with "functional" when it came to numbering parts.
 
Loewe, thank you very much for the insightful information! Very intriguing...amazing how these things provide a window to look through at how an army was run a century ago. I have many questions still, just trying to learn:

1. With the stock disc showing initial issue to a recruit depot, is there a way to tell where that depot could have been, based on the number 356? Is it safe to assume that this is the only disc this rifle was issued with?

2. With war breaking out in 1914, I've learned that due to the shortage of available rifles, G98s that were issued to depots got redeployed to the front line regiments and Gew 88s took their place in the depot racks. While mine certainly does not look like it spent it's whole life sitting in a depot, there's no reason to believe it was a front line piece either. What were these depots for, and would rifles taken and issued from these depots been fitted with a new stock disc? Would the weapon stay within the 57th regiment? Is there any way to tell what may have happened to it, such as paper records or something like that?

3. Is there a unit history available for the 57th? I know they are a very, very old unit. They were there at the start in 1914, and got mauled at Verdun in 1916.

I'm new to the German side of World War 1. Just trying to fit the pieces together of who, what, where etc.
 
Hello,

i can try to answer some of your questions.

1. The new Gewehr 98 was given in 6 big batches to the different Armeekorps. The last Batch, 1907-1908 went to the (prussian) I, II, VI, VII, XI, XVI and XVII. Since your rifle was build in 1906 i can't see it being given to another unit before making his way to the 57. Regiment.
Looking trough the history of that regiment i can only find one information about their Rekrutendepots. After being mobilized on the 02.08.1914 the regiment formed one Ersatzbataillon with 4 companies and 2 Rekrutendepots. All of them were still stationed in Wesel town area. (see the map) Since your number is so high, you can guess it was given to the second Rekrutendepot but i can't prove it.


2. This is a very difficult question. You are right with your thoughts about the shortage of Gewehr 98 in the first two years of the war. Why your rifle is looking so good and doesn't show any real sign of frontline usage... i don't know. The supply routes in the first few years was a real mess since nobody would have thought that they would loose such immense numbers of men and weaponry. Maybe someone else can tell you more about this question.


3. Yes. As with nearly every imperial german regiment there are unit historys. The ones about the great war are mostly published in the 1930s and its hard to find these. For example:

"Schnarke, Georg: Die Tradition des deutschen Heeres - Traditionsheft Nr. 69 - Ehem. Inf.-Regt Herzog Friedrich v. Braunschweig (8. Westfäl.) Nr 57, Kyffhäuser-Verlag, Berlin, 1938"
or
"Castendyk, Hermann (Oberst a.D.): Das Kgl. Preuss. Infanterie-Regiment Herzog Ferdinand von Braunschweig (8. Westfälisches) Nr. 57 im Weltkrieg 1914-1918, Erinnerungsblätter deutscher Regimenter - Bd. 364, Oldenburg/Berlin 1936, ‪G. Stalling‬, 230 Seiten."


With kind regards

Vincent

PS: the pictures are from the war memorial of the 57. Infanterie Regiment. Showing that between 1914 and 1918 168 officers and 5465 troopers died.
 

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