Commercially proofed bcd4 coded K98k

[Absolut]

Introduction:

Attending a very small gun show today where I bought absolutely nothing on the way back home I decided to give an antiques dealer a call, asking whether he currently has something which could be of interest to me. He denied and said I know all, I nevertheless visited him and we looked at some items which are not of interest to me. For whatever reason I checked again the items which I maybe have looked at a dozen times over the last few years, when once again an item caught my eye.

I've never looked at this rifle in detail before since it has holes for a scope base in the receiver which looked like bubba did it. But since I was in buying mood and had cash at hands I nevertheless checked it and for the first time noticed the oddities this rifle has - especially the wild mixture of markings, but nevertheless being matching with the same font on every part. When I then noticed the Eagle N firing proof, I decided to buy it.

I took it home with me and then inspected it in detail. I compared it with rifles in this knowledge library, as well as the books of Mike and Bruce. It doesn't fit to anything in there, so I'm posting it with the hope to learn more on it.

Finally to the rifle:

It is a bcd 4 coded receiver, made by Astrawerke ("1" on the right side of the receiver). The right side of the receiver is as well marked with an Eagle over N for a commercial nitro proof. ALL parts that have serial numbers are matching numbers (serial number on receiver, barrel, magazine guard bolt, stock; last two digits of serial on magazine floorplate, safety, gas shroud, bolt release). Take special note of the extremely odd serial number - the 1 appears to be of larger size than the 5 and the 2 - this can be seen on all parts which have the full serial (except for the stock). Neither the barrel bands nor the handguard or the stock in the inside have a serial number. The barrel is bcd and 43 marked, so Gustloff production from 1943.

The rifle has a Diamond U below the woodline on the right side. I have read this is a commercial acceptance. It also has a X on the left side of the receiver, also below the woodline (Mike and Steve have pictured X marked barrels in their book on rifles they claim are Sauer commercially made - my barrel does not have an X on it. I therefore assume maybe the receiver was reclaimed?). Take special note of the firing proof which is on bottom of the barrel with what I assume is a date: 844, so August 1944.

The hole oddity:

The holes look like the pattern for a LSR platform (or could they also be SSR?). The receiver however isn't thick. If I was to guess, I would vote Bubba filed the receiver flat and drilled holes for the LSR mount. On the other hand the cutout in the stock is such extremely nice done that it was someone very professional who perfectly knew what he was doing. Also note the way the stock was milled - only on the inside, typical for J. P. Sauer & Sohn, they did this for the SSR. There is no "Mod. 98" designation that i can make out, maybe it was milled off.

Some more oddities:

• The rear sight has three weird stamps on different parts. I marked them with a red arrow. I had never seen these before.
• The bolt is Z in a Circle marked on the bottom of the handle (Czech stamp?), as well as 17 on the backside of the handle (facing towards the shooter). Also note an odd stamp on top of the bolt handle ball which I have not seen before. The safety and the gas shield are very poorly stamped 52.
• There are three burnt markings inside the cutout for the sling frog.
• Weirdest thing: the trigger is held in place by a nail!

So ... what do I exactly have here?

 

[Absolut]

I can only add 10 pictures per post. So I have to do more posts to be able to add more pics.

 

[Absolut]

I can only add 10 pictures per post. So I have to do more posts to be able to add the final two pics.

 

[waffenmeister]

That’s a very interesting rifle for sure and indeed a keeper.

 

[mrfarb]

I like these late commercials. I've seen others from this same series, even with the same "2" that is smaller. I'd say this is just a late commercial that was sporterized (not too roughly) after the war by adding a scope for hunting maybe. I'll add photo of the other one I have with that 2. For info, you can actually add 20 photos per post - you upload the first 10, then you can keep uploading.

Thats a pretty rare barrel, I think the HWA rejected almost all of those barrels from Gustloff.

 

[Absolut]

Thank you for the comparison pictures. Do you have any ideas on who assembled these rifles? And why the mixture of so many different part sources? The proof of August 1944 wouldn't make them "late war" rifles, so for who were they made? Private individuals? And is there anything written on these in any of your books? I only found the ones which do have a military firing proof but no final acceptance nor commercial firing proofs which on the other hand share some similar details (like Diamond U and X markings).

 

[flynaked]

Hard to say who on these with so many small makers in Thüringen. Obviously some examples have an easily attributable maker on them though. This kind of scavenger parts sourcing is typical of commercial Mauser production in the region, even outside of “military” pattern rifles. There is a heavy influence of Astrawerke parts of course, but also rejected parts from many of the small makers in the region and the bigger ones as well, many “35” marked Walther parts for instance. Your bolt is a turned down vz24 bolt, as that is simply a Czech lion on the bolt ball. Issues aside, it’s a really neat rifle, congrats on your find! I’ve been hunting a matched commercial for years now.

 

[Absolut]

I guess you don't want to go through the hassle of importing it to the US since I know myself good enough that I'll somewhen part with it since if the scope holes aren't period done I'll be parting with it after having it for some time. Well, I anyway wouldn't know which value such a piece would have!

 

[Absolut]

I'm a bit amazed by the lack of interest in this rifle. Is it really this little interesting?

I like these late commercials. [..] I've seen others from this same series, even with the same "2" that is smaller. [..] I'll add photo of the other one I have with that 2.

Would you mind letting me at least more on those you have seen? How many "like this" have you seen, only the one you had posted pictures of? And was this one matching numbers or did it have mismatching parts as well? Was it a bcd4 coded receiver as well, I can't make this out in the picture? And for how much did it sell?

 

[heavy_mech]

..[*]The rear sight has three weird stamps on different parts. I marked them with a red arrow. I had never seen these before.

It's an italic lower case 'i', manufacturer code for Elite Diamant, Chemnitz a bicycle maker who is most known for their bayonet production but also made every rear sight part.

I can't speak for others but I think this rifle would already be somewhat niche for wartime collectors and certainly the bubba effect hurts interest. Just my $.02. I think they're interesting.

 

[mrfarb]

I’m here to tell you not many people care about commercial k98k rifles, it’s a fact. I have no idea why, but any drilled parts and forget about selling it. I like them, I appreciate the idea behind them as I understand the context. You say August 1944 isn’t late- you only mean it isn’t late enough for formation of the Volkssturm. What happened in Europe in the summer of 1944 that might rattle some people into needing guns?

I have about 3 similar saved that date back to 1943.


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[Absolut]

It's an italic lower case 'i', manufacturer code for Elite Diamant, Chemnitz a bicycle maker who is most known for their bayonet production but also made every rear sight part.
I can't speak for others but I think this rifle would already be somewhat niche for wartime collectors and certainly the bubba effect hurts interest. Just my $.02. I think they're interesting.

Thank you for the information re the Elite Diamant marking! So another differently made part. I guess then everything of the rifle was made based on scrap parts/non conform parts.
I agree with you on the "bubba effect". Yet I'm not fully sure what I should think of it. The cutout is way too good to be bubba. I had thought that maybe a scope was professionally fitted and later bubba wanted to fit his own base and took out the file (or he wanted to fix the problem of the base getting loose?), damaged too much so threw away the whole scope base and scope mount. Anyway, still doesn't make it much better.

I’m here to tell you not many people care about commercial k98k rifles, it’s a fact. I have no idea why, but any drilled parts and forget about selling it. I like them, I appreciate the idea behind them as I understand the context. You say August 1944 isn’t late- you only mean it isn’t late enough for formation of the Volkssturm. What happened in Europe in the summer of 1944 that might rattle some people into needing guns?
I have about 3 similar saved that date back to 1943.

Thank you for the information of how many you have documented. Is any of these three rifles documented in either of your books? I had tried to search, but couldn't find anything. Are all three based on a bcd 4 coded action?
I fully agree that commercial made K98k rifles are out of many people's focus. Simply because there were so little and there is very little known on them as well. People who buy them are usually those who already have a larger collection, I don't think anyone would buy it as a "starter rifle" for a collection. And finally yes, August 1944 in my opinion would be a bit early for rifle production for the Volkssturm. But you are more expert with this than me - what is your guess on these rifles, who was important enough in 1944 to get more than 1000 K98k rifles, but this unimportant, that they had to use scrap parts to build these rifles and commercially proof them?