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BNZ 45 Kriegsmodell...I think :-)

Hello everyone!

Long time lurker, first time poster. I tried to follow proper forum etiquette and use your search function, along with your excellent picture reference thread, before posting. I'm hoping some of you folks can chime in and give me an idea of what I may have (or not have!).

I just picked up what appears to be a BNZ 45 Kriegsmodell, Serial #3544, "S" block. The action of the rifle seems straight to me: A mix of blued and phosphate parts; the parts that typically have numbers, have them; and the numbers all match. The screws look perfect. The rifle looks practically unfired...no appreciable wear in the action, the barrel is like a mirror with perfect rifling, the internal parts (trigger, etc) look unworn as well. All of the action parts seem to "hang together" so to speak. Nothing looks (to my untrained eyes) out of place.

Then there's the stock...it also shows very little wear. No bumps or bruises, it's tight, no cracks, etc. BUT...it sure doesn't look like the typical (I know from your forum that 'typical' can vary quite a bit when talking about late-war K98's) BNZ 45 full-kriegsmodell stock. It looks more like the BCD semi-kriegsmodell stocks. It has a drilled buttplate & no stock disc, but it has the bayonet lug, hole for a cleaning rod, and a barrel-band spring. There's a faint stamp on the buttstock, and a few marks in the sling cutout that I can't quite make out.

Inside, there's no numbers anywhere. The inletting is excellent, very tight fit around the trigger guard and barreled action, though there's a bit of a gap between the forward barrel contour and stock. And, this appears to be a white-glued laminate. No evidence of red glue inside the stock, handguard, or buttstock. There's what looks like a third screw hole in the buttstock, under the buttplate (the buttplate has the red primer on the inside, but is unmarked).

Bottom line: I'm not sure if this rifle was cobbled together during the war, right after the war, or last week. :biggrin1:

ANYWAY!!! Here's some pics. I tried to cover as many angles as possible. Any information you folks can provide will be appreciated! Thanks in advance for looking and providing your considered opinions.

I'll need to span the pics over two posts, so stand-by to stand-by...

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The stock is a Mauser Oberndorf semi-km stock. The ink stamp in the barrel channel and WaA135 on the right buttstock are MO.
 
The stock is a Mauser Oberndorf semi-km stock. The ink stamp in the barrel channel and WaA135 on the right buttstock are MO.

I agree with jbmauser. It is the wrong stock for this rifle, but it is unnumbered and in original condition. It should be worth approximately the same amount as the full Kriegsmodell Steyr stock this rifle would have originally had. You might consider using it for a straight up trade. Someone here may have what you need and need what you have.
 
jbmauser and Pisgah, thanks so much for your quick replies!

This brings me to another series of questions...questions that are asked by many in this situation :biggrin1:

Is there a possibility -- and I mean a reasonable possibility, not a logical possibility -- that this 45 BNZ had this stock when it left a war-time German factory? Or, is it more likely that this stock was added post-war?

And, if it was added post-war, what do you think is a likely scenario?

- Put together by an Allied soldier from available parts?
- Or the full Kriegsmodell Steyr stock was swapped by someone for a "prettier" semi Kriegsmodell MO stock?
- Or was this done much later in the States?

I'm also intrigued about the reason for the swap since, if I'm reading you right Pisgah, the stocks (Styer & MO) are roughly equivalent in value. Why would someone swap? I'm going to assume that, if the rifle originally had a Steyr full Kriegsmodell stock, that it was in good condition since the rifle action shows almost no wear. Of course, we're talking war-time and post-war conditions so who knows what the original stock may have looked like.

Sorry for the ramble, guys! If I could, one more question:

- I read recently that the 'svw' on the trigger guard indicates that the rifle may have been assembled post-war at the French-controlled Mauser factory...That 'svw' was a code assigned by the French to the Mauser factory post-war. Any truth to that?

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Thanks again, folks!!!
 
Your SVW part is a correct wartime part sometimes found on late bnz guns. The gun's metal may have been rescued from a sporterized rifle and returned to military configuration with the wrong stock being used.
 
If I had to guess, my theory would be that sometime post war the original stock on your bnz was sporterized and someone wanted to restore it and either had this stock on hand or acquired it because it is unnumbered and thought it would be correct.

Pisgah made an excellent suggestion. A semi-km unnumbered MO stock is a pretty hard to find item and you could probably trade it for the correct km stock for your bnz.

svw was a wartime code (late) and MO supplied bottom metal to Steyr during the war. With only one e/135 on your svw tg it is a correct part for a bnz45.
 
This stock is not the original stock for the rifle. It may be a sporter rescue as suggested. Another possibility is that a previous owner didn't like the Kriegsmodell stock and switched to get a stock with a bayonet mount. Another possibility would be that the vet brought back more than one rifle then for one reason or another made a mistake in reassembling them (consider asking wherever you purchased it where the rifle came from--maybe there is an L block byf 44 or byf 45 still there wearing a full Kriegsmodell Steyr stock!). Also remember that 30 or more years ago these rifles weren't worth anywhere what they are today, most people didn't know (or care) what was correct, and there was no book or internet that had the answers. The svw code was the final code used by Mauser Oberndorf and was used at that factory for the final several months of the war. As already mentioned, it is the correct and original part for this rifle. Everything you have appears original minus the stock. You just need an eagle/H marked Steyr Kriegsmodell stock with correct bands and wood screws.
 
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Pisgah, jbmauser, and basile -- Again, THANK YOU for your thoughtful and detailed responses!!!

You've put my mind at ease and given me something to consider. It's the 'not' knowing that drives me (and all of us to one degree or another in the collecting world :biggrin1:) a little crazy!

So an eagle/H marked Steyr full-Kriegsmodell stock, with correct barrel bands and screws is what I'm after. Are there pics of correct barrel bands/screws in your Picture Reference?
 
When the Vet brought or mailed the rifle home, he may have given it a "duffle" cut, then decided to replace the damaged stock with a "good" one sometime after he got back to the States. In any case a very nice rifle, and worth the cost and effort of acquiring a correct stock.
 
1945 steyr stocks are hard to come by, not impossible but tough, I wont say one way is better then the other, but you could also chase a nice late mauser oberndorf barreled action to use on your stock.....An skm MO is uncommon and nice as well, byf45 and even svw45 and svwMB barreled actions are out there as well. There were lots of sporters and such.

You would end up with a nice rifle in the end whichever way you go.
 
When the Vet brought or mailed the rifle home, he may have given it a "duffle" cut, then decided to replace the damaged stock with a "good" one sometime after he got back to the States. In any case a very nice rifle, and worth the cost and effort of acquiring a correct stock.

I agree, I'd like to get a Steyr full-Kriegsmodell for it.

Besides the usual places (Here, Gunboards, Armslist, etc) any other places that you've found are good for sourcing these things? I know it's going to be tough no matter where I go!


Thanks!
 
1945 steyr stocks are hard to come by, not impossible but tough, I wont say one way is better then the other, but you could also chase a nice late mauser oberndorf barreled action to use on your stock.....An skm MO is uncommon and nice as well, byf45 and even svw45 and svwMB barreled actions are out there as well. There were lots of sporters and such.

You would end up with a nice rifle in the end whichever way you go.

That's an excellent suggestion...Thanks!
 

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