98/05 frog

A

ANDYH

Member
Just picked up this 98/05 frog. It has aluminum rivets and steel washers with a very feint mark. In sunlight and magnification what appears to be a date of 1941, is this possible?
 

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Absolutely! Some number of new S98/05 frogs are known from 1941-42. These are Carter #302, One example I have is marked FRANZE BREHME in a arch above
WALSRODE 1941 and have a second dated 1942.
 
Yup, after further review, it looks that is indeed the marking. BTW, were aluminum rivets ever used on Imperial frogs? Thanks for the info.
Andy
 
Yes they are present, question are the 2 holes on backside? but it looks ok to me. Question remains what was there as the hook on S98/05 scabbard is much smaller as here is visible in leather pressed in around the hole? possible it was used with DRK Fashinenmesser, there is larger hook.
 
ANDYH said:
Yup, after further review, it looks that is indeed the marking. BTW, were aluminum rivets ever used on Imperial frogs? Thanks for the info.
Andy
Click to expand...

Imperial Germany used a variety of rivet combinations depending on the theater of operations:

Europe:
- Pre-war to ~1915: Copper rivet with a brass burr
- 1915-1918: Steel rivets and burrs are appearing more often, but copper/brass combination is also encountered.

Africa/Oversea colonies:
- brass rivets and burrs for tropical climates.

However there are exceptions to the rule: I've seen tropical/colonial frogs with copper/brass combination, so a certain variance depending the availability of materials of a producer exists.

After WW1, the combination of copper/brass was used until the late 1920s. The aluminium rivets started to appear around the early/mid 30s. Around 1940/41, steel rivets and burrs were used again to save on aluminium for war production.
 
Hi AndyB, yes I was wondering about the 2 holes on the rear and the frog stud impression on the front as well. Good eye.
 
May not be talking about bayonet frogs directly, but I can tell you mixed steel and aluminum hardware occurs from 1940 until 1943 in most things WW2 German. I have tornisters, canteens, straps, and various rucksacks with aluminum rivets on one strap and steel on the other, examples of aluminum washers and steel rivet heads and vice versa, and even examples of steel buckles and aluminum rollers and aluminum buckles with steel rollers. I even have equipment where there will be mixes of all steel and all aluminum hardware subassemblies on the same item. These tiny pieces of hardware did not come down a conveyor belt in a nice line, the were likely dumped into massive bins in sewing shops and utilized by just scooping out what a worker needed.

Another note is "latewar" riveting on equipment occurs much earlier than people think, riveting begins in 1942, Germany's first full year in Russia for context.
 
Yes Aaron,
It makes total sense that they used what they had and when they got it. Especially when they changes were occurring. I doubt anyone was considering first in, first out.
Initially I was wondering about the rivet materials on the Imperial frogs. I don't think they were using aluminum, right?

Andy
 
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