1911 Erfurt Luger

[mauser1908]

Last week I picked up a 1911 Erfurt. This one was a bit of a grail for me, I've always wanted an early Erfurt but this is about as early as they come. 1911 was really the first year of production for Erfurt aside from a 50 pistol pre production tooling test run in 1910; with the total number for the year landing around 10,000. Very low production even when compared to early DWMs. This was originally manufactured without the hold open and was retrofitted around 1914. This involved relieving the frame and breech block to accommodate the hold open. Before 1913, Erfurt breech blocks were not manufactured with the notch to accommodate the hold open and needed to be machined or replaced during the retrofit. In contrast, all DWM pistols used a standard notched breechblock and only required the frame update. I suspect this one was fitted with a replacement due to the color and machining difference. This seemed to be a common occurrence on 1911 and 1912 dated examples. You can see where the original extractor was retained and the original old style horizontally numbered firing pin is present as well.

 

[gunnertwo]

Nice example of an early P.08.

G2

 

[chrisftk]

That one is a great score Sam. The condition is fantastic given how early it was produced. Barely any wear at all.

 

[krukster86]

Lovely time capsule for sure.

 

[PrayingMantis]

Absolutely outstanding, Sam. Thanks for posting such great photos of it.

 

[joryfreeburg]

Really nice and scarce. Congrats

 

[mauser99]

wow.. wonderful condition and just how you want to find them !! Erfurt 08's seem to have a bit more character than the DWM's IMHO..

 

[DWM1915]

Congrats, really nice example, 1911 Erfurts are tough to find in anything approaching collector condition, between low production and 7 years service most have the rode hard look. Did you get lucky and get an early Erfurt mag with it?

Nick

 

[mauser1908]

Nice example of an early P.08.

G2

Thank you!

That one is a great score Sam. The condition is fantastic given how early it was produced. Barely any wear at all.

Thanks Chris!

Lovely time capsule for sure.

Thank you!

Absolutely outstanding, Sam. Thanks for posting such great photos of it.

Thanks Cyrus!

Really nice and scarce. Congrats

Thanks Jory!

wow.. wonderful condition and just how you want to find them !! Erfurt 08's seem to have a bit more character than the DWM's IMHO..

Thank you, I agree, I’ve always had a soft spot for them.

Congrats, really nice example, 1911 Erfurts are tough to find in anything approaching collector condition, between low production and 7 years service most have the rode hard look. Did you get lucky and get an early Erfurt mag with it?

Nick

Thank you! No, this one has an unmarked DWM commercial magazine. I did have a spare 1914 or earlier Erfurt mag that I slapped in it.

 

[jimdvan]

Its interesting that the middle toggle, extension and frame are not marked with the crown over RC mark to denote the modification. I have a 1912 Erfurt that is marked to a reserve medical unit with the bolt hold open mod and it is crown over RC marked in the three places.

 

[RyanE]

Its interesting that the middle toggle, extension and frame are not marked with the crown over RC mark to denote the modification. I have a 1912 Erfurt that is marked to a reserve medical unit with the bolt hold open mod and it is crown over RC marked in the three places.

The Crown/RC indicates that the part did not technically meet specification when originally manufactured, but the issues were minor enough that the Revisions-Commision accepted it for use. The RC stamp relieved the inspector of any responsibility if the part had any issues down the line and was found to be out of spec. The stamp was only used by government factories (Erfurt, etc.) and not any of the private ones (DWM, etc.)

Very common to see the RC on the wartime Erfurt guns.

 

[jimdvan]

That's right, I remember that now. Thanks.

 

[chrisftk]

The stamp was only used by government factories (Erfurt, etc.) and not any of the private ones (DWM, etc.)

Hey Ryan-- just a quick clarification; Are you referring specifically to P08s? If so, yes, I've not seen a DWM with a c/RC.

If we are talking in general, I have a few WMO/DWM/ Gew98s with c/RC receivers or other parts. I don't believe I have seen any on the minor contractors, but Mauser and DWM certainly had revisions committees on the rifle side. Just a couple examples:

1901 Naval DWM


1917 WMO


1918 DWM Stock

 

[RyanE]

Hey Ryan-- just a quick clarification; Are you referring specifically to P08s? If so, yes, I've not seen a DWM with a c/RC.

I was, yes, but I would have assumed there were no Crown/RC on the private Gew98 makers also. Interesting. Maybe Erfurt was just really bad at P08 production?

 

[mauser1908]

Its interesting that the middle toggle, extension and frame are not marked with the crown over RC mark to denote the modification. I have a 1912 Erfurt that is marked to a reserve medical unit with the bolt hold open mod and it is crown over RC marked in the three places.

An additional acceptance stamp was added to the frame when the hold open was added and passed testing. Your gun exhibits this as well.

 

[mauser1908]

I was, yes, but I would have assumed there were no Crown/RC on the private Gew98 makers also. Interesting. Maybe Erfurt was just really bad at P08 production?

In 1916 and ‘17 they were made with a hand file bad lol. I’m won’t say that Erfurt was as meticulous as DWM or they produced as fine of a product. With that said, concerning early DWMs and Erfurts I’ve personally handled (take that with a grain of salt) there’s not a substantial difference. Early Erfurts seem to be finely finished. That degraded radically in 1916, though they seem to get markedly better by 1918. On the late guns, Erfurt was superior in some ways, DWM in others. I wanted to share my one DWM that had to be reviewed. This is 1913 had the frame fail the initial inspection. It’s so uncommon for them that I’m not sure if I’ve seen another.



I think you’ll all these remarks from Gortz interesting. “Interestingly, however, there were military authorities who considered Erfurt pistols to have been made to closer tolerances (and consequently to be more accurate) than their DWM equivalents. The issue played a role for the Bavarian Army when, in 1913-14, all pistols of earlier production were to be retrofitted with hold open devices”. Below is a photo so everyone can have the full context.